#67 My Beautiful Stutter with Ryan Gielen
“I wanted to take my camera and fight on behalf of all the kids in SAY, and all the young people who stuttered in the country and in the world... I just wanted to go fight on their behalf. And my tool is a camera.”
Listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts or your favorite podcast platform. You can also watch the interview on YouTube.
BIO:
Ryan is the co-founder and Chief Creative Officer at Believe Limited, a production company in Los Angeles. Producing credits include the new documentary My Beautiful Stutter, from executive producers Mariska Hargitay, Peter Hermann, Paul Rudd, and George Springer and the documentary Bombardier Blood from executive producer Alex Borstein
EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS
00:05 Ryan Gielen intro
01:33 Focus of documentary: it’s ok to stutter
06:51 Shift from fixing stuttering
11:43 Thunderbolt moment and idea for the project
17:54 Larger target audience
21:24 SAY organization – self-expression through the arts
23:30 Power of listening
32:54 Popular culture and stuttering
39:23 Role of SLP
45:08 Vulnerability of young people in My Beautiful Stutter
RESOURCE LIST
MORE QUOTES
“Every kid has insecurities. And to hear the kids on screen and in the documentary talk about their insecurities... I just realized, I was asking a lot of young people to be very vulnerable. So I started trying to put myself in their shoes.” -Ryan Gielen
TRANSCRIPTION:
Uri Schneider: here we are. Here we are. It's been a long time. Uh, we took a break over the summer and everybody's kind of coming out of hibernation of isolation. Uh, it's great to see Ryan out in the great outdoors squeezing in this conversation in the midst. The life. We're all living, trying to pack in everything as much as possible, but I appreciate it.
Uri Schneider: Um, today we have a big, big treat because Ryan Geelan is one of the busiest people right now as the documentary, my beautiful stutter has just kind of broken into outer orbit. And we'll talk about that. But Ryan is the co-founder and chief creative officer. I believe limited. It's a production company based in Los Angeles.
Uri Schneider: Uh, he's producing credits include this new documentary, my beautiful stutter, uh, with executive producers, Mariska , uh, Peter Herman, Paul Rudd, and George Springer. Uh, some of you know, all those people, some of you might know. Paul Rudd. Others might know MLP centerfielder George Springer and the documentary and the document.
Uri Schneider: His other credits include documentary Bombardier blood from executive producer, Alex Bornstein. It is super exciting because this movie, if you want to explain Ryan, I'm going to just pass to you to give a little intro on what do people not know about you? And what do I mean when I say that this film has just reached outer orbit?
Ryan Gielen: Uh, thank you, dude. Thanks for the intro. Um, so my beautiful stutter is, uh, about one year in the life of five young people who stutter. Um, they range in age from at nine years old to 18 years old. Um, And it follows them at different stages of participating in say programming and say, obviously it's the stuttering association for the young, the youngest person we follow Malcolm.
Ryan Gielen: Um, I catch him a few months before he starts doing anything with say he's, he's deep in the midst of struggling tremendously with his stutter and with. His classmates and teachers and the world's reaction to his stutter. He's only nine at the time when I started following him, as he entered say programs, and, and that ranges all the way up to, uh, Sarah who is 17.
Ryan Gielen: And when I started following her or 16, when I started following her and she's been doing say for years, The purpose of the film is to track what seems to me to be a revolutionary, the impact of a revolutionary concept, which is what happens in the life of a young person. If the prison, through which they think about stuttering is it's okay to stutter.
Ryan Gielen: And it's a simple concept. It's a very simple question, but from my point of view, It's revolutionary because so much of a young person's life when they, when they stop better or they have speech difficulties, so much of their life is focused on, and there's so much outside pressure to quote unquote, fix the starter.
Ryan Gielen: And I think psycho-socially, that can cause so many other challenges and problems that it was very, it was really fascinating. Not being a person who's fluent, being a person who had no relationship with stuttering to walk into this world and see there's the way it's been done for centuries and the way it could be done.
Ryan Gielen: And try to bring a camera in to focus on that question on that difference of how different can a young person's life be. If they actually start to believe it's okay, that they. Um, and so that's the focus of the film and it's, you know, it's 90 minutes, it went to film festivals and won some awards and it now is available through discovery channel on discovery plus in the U S and then through other television networks and streamers all over the world.
Ryan Gielen: Um, and, uh, yeah, that's, that's been the journey for the last six and a half years, six and a half years ago, I started making the. And it took two years to film two years to edit two years in film festivals, and then discovery picked it up finally. And now it's out in the world.
Uri Schneider: Well, it's out in the world, it's around the world.
Uri Schneider: And when I said, like getting into outer. For those that know for those that don't know, you might say to yourself took six years, like for 90 minutes, like yeah. Yeah. There are many components that go into making the film that you see any film you've see, but certainly a film of this caliber and certainly from our experience as well, in terms of making a documentary transcending, stuttering, and every other film that's been made, uh, films.
Uri Schneider: Like when I, you know, when I stutter or the way I talk, these are all fantastic documentary. This film is unique because I don't think any of the others reached outer orbit in the sense of getting that global attention and distribution. So that is a massive achievement. Many people will, few people take their creative talent and put something out as substantial as any of the films I've mentioned, or this film, my beautiful stutter, um, but very, very few managed to get into the distribution circles and channels.
Uri Schneider: And that's why it's exciting. Promote this film, not only for its substance stands and speaks for itself, but also the opportunity to really spread the message of the film of what Ryan poured into it. And obviously the way it showcases the amazing work of a stuttering association for the young, which is active on the ground in New York, in DC, in Australia, founded and led by our good friend, Taro Alexander.
Uri Schneider: Um, today leadership includes Noah Corman and Travis Roberts among others. All outstanding human beings, doing epic frontline work, changing the lives of young people who stutter. And one cannot forget a shout out to my favorite, say person ever Bradley. Um, it's hard to imagine what say would be without any of these people, but Everett Bradley.
Uri Schneider: There's only one guy that could dress the way he does jam the way he does and just pull it all together in such a professional and personable way, but big shout out to all their friends and say, um, so that's a little say promo and a big shout out to you. Again, like distribution is a really big deal.
Uri Schneider: How many people want to see a film about people who stutter? Well, discovery decided this had traction, this had legs, this was worth it. And so I encourage everybody to show Discovery They made a good decision. So whether it's in your school, your community, it's a great conversation piece. It's a great public advocacy piece.
Uri Schneider: It's substantial. And if it reaches one person, it changes their perspective. As part of this shift from let's fix kids who stutter let's fix stuttering, and it just get someone to realize, wow, look what happens to a kid early on as early as possible when the message is that, that are sprinkled in to them.
Uri Schneider: are You're perfect. Just the way you are and the way you talk. Okay. Yeah. It's okay to stutter and you're not alone. And shout out again to all the organizations and people that are part of this tapestry and fabric of the stuttering community. It'd be interesting to hear from Ryan, what he walked into to discover there's like a whole world, you know, when you pull back the layers and you realize that behind the curtains of isolation and, uh, people living in shame, people living, feeling like there's no one else that gets.
Uri Schneider: There's actually a whole world of connectivity say is one of the big players in that space, but there's so many others. So it'll be fascinating. So through this conversation, we'll talk about how Ryan, a guy who doesn't stutter found himself here, uh, what he discovered, what he learned, what are the important takeaways, uh, for people who stutter for people who care about people who stutter, and maybe what's really exciting to me is transcending stuttering, the title of this podcast, the title of the documentary.
Uri Schneider: I've referred to this before the Dan Greenwald, the person who stutters and a dear friend and soul brother has often said, there's this double entendre like transcending stuttering means let's go beyond the stuttering. Like it's not all about stuttering. It's about the people. But even beyond that, I think those of us that don't stutter have so much to learn, to be inspired and to truly gain from the lived experiences and examples of people who stutter and by connecting ourselves with them, uh, we have so much to learn and to gain. So I'll let you start where you want. Like, where does the story begin? Where do you come on scene? You've got this Los Angeles production company. Tara is based in New York, uh, camp say at that time, I don't know if it was in North Carolina or somewhere else in the mountains. Yeah. Where do you end your stage left? Like how did this come to be? What was that first starstruck?
Ryan Gielen: So I, I had made some small, independent films that were narrative films, so not documentaries and a producer saw one and said, why don't you come with me to this say, gala, I think there might be a film in there somewhere.
Ryan Gielen: So just this sort of like an exploratory experience, you know, as a pretty sure I liked Broadway producer, Michael Alden, he produced the King's speech on Broadway and on the west end in London. So he had a relationship to say and the stuttering community, he said, why don't you come to the state gal? I think this is in 2014 and just see if there's something sparks for you.
Ryan Gielen: And so I re I remember I, I was expecting something, you know, touching and fine and maybe donate some money and just, you know, having have any evening. But that evening changed my life and it, it started, uh, you know, it took about two minutes to change my life because what happens at the start of the say gala at least to the, in this one.
Ryan Gielen: All these people come in, dressed to the nines. It's this gorgeous theater in downtown New York, um, Skirball theater at NYU, the, the lights go down. Everybody's dressed beautifully is 500 people filling out this auditorium, single spotlight on stage. And this little boy, eight years old, walks out on stage, clutching a piece of paper and he reads from the piece of paper and it's silent.
Ryan Gielen: You can hear a pin drop and he just says, thank you for coming to the 2014. SAY gala And when he was done, it took about 20 seconds to say it because he was stuttering. And when he was done, there was silence. And after a few seconds, this standing ovation just took over the theater. There's this wave of people standing up clapping, just washed over him and you could see him grow a foot in that moment.
Ryan Gielen: He grew up for, he started, he levitated off state and I realized, you know, this may be obvious to, to you and to your listeners because you all have been in this world for a while. But in that moment, I had the light bulb of the reason he was silent, waiting to see what would happen when he finished speaking is because he's used to, when he finishes speaking, he's used to people laughing.
Ryan Gielen: He's used to hearing little comments from around the room. People shifting uncomfortably people, making fun of him, teachers, kids, adults, you know, but instead the standing ovation for him speaking with a stutter, proudly and confidently with a stutter, instead of trying to mask it or push it back or waiting until he could get a single word out and then waiting until he gets it.
Ryan Gielen: But just being. It, it, it was so telling about what his life journey must be like that. It was just like this Thunderbolt moment for me and the rest of the night reinforced that the stories that were told about, you know, the journey of young producers for the rest of the night, I left that night feeling like I had to do something like I had to take my camera and go do something on behalf of these young people.
Ryan Gielen: Can I talk about,
Uri Schneider: I want to just, first of all, I just looked it up. I was there 2014. It wasn't that when bill Withers got up and sang Lena. Yeah. Yeah. And so bill Withers was there too. And John Skelly, but certainly the what's beautiful about the gala is it's when it's the spotlight on the kids, something you said struck me, you said at the beginning, it was the night that changed your life.
Uri Schneider: And as much as that kid grew a couple of feet, it kind of echoed to me what I was saying before. The surprising thing is how much we have to gain from each other. Like everyone in that room, every person that stood up gave that kid in it. Every person that applauded gave that kid another inch. And so like, there was this flow of energy that was going towards the stage to this kid and his life was touched and changed and altered by people that don't even know him, just taking the time to like get off their tofus, put down their phone and give them the attention and applause he deserved.
Uri Schneider: But you also said it changed your life. And then. You know, kind of like reverb, you know, that, that recip reciprocity, can you talk about, like, what did it do for you? What, what hit you? What was that feeling as you think back? Cause I know that was always the highlight of my year. It was one of the moments I looked forward to to get to.
Uri Schneider: For the next year of my work of dedication, devotion to people who stutter their families and therapists that are looking to do better for people who stutter. So I kind of know what it does for me, but I was curious, like if you could tap into and describe for us, what was that feeling that wash through you?
Ryan Gielen: I, it took me five years or six years. It took me until I was doing Q and a. At film festivals after finishing the film to really understand what had happened that night. And I was going to speak to a group of, we were able to, we were honored as the inspire screenings at the Napa valley film festival.
Ryan Gielen: And so they would show our documentary too, to about 500 kids at a time. It is three groups of about 500 kids in the Northern California area. And going into that, I realized I was asking the kids in the audience to be pretty vulnerable, to connect with. And it would probably bring up some things for these kids, right?
Ryan Gielen: Every kid in that audience has insecurities insecurities And to sit in that room and hear that the kids on screen and in the documentary talk about their insecurities. I just realized, I was asking a lot of young people to be very vulnerable. So I started trying to put myself in their shoes and I had this light bulb moment of, I think, one of the biggest reasons that the 2014 say gal, those opening moments I was hooked from, from that and was willing to give six years to this project is because and it took so long to put my finger on this. But when I was a kid, I was bullied for being fat. And I don't use that word lightly that. He's a very, very specifically here because that's the word that was used to make me feel less than for, for years, for probably three or four years until I got good at sports and was able to kick a little butt, but that's a side story, but it was used either you
Uri Schneider: go to, um, say, or you get good at sports. Those are two tickets for any young person for boys that really is truly a ticket, uh, out of, you know, social ridicule and bullying. Yeah,
Ryan Gielen: absolutely.
Ryan Gielen: You become aware of what you actually are capable of and how false the stories are that people are telling about. you Right. Your own narrative, you realize is false. When you get good at sports or music or, or writing or art, you know, like when you find the thing that sparks for you. But, but I remember one time I had a really terrible, terrible day, week, month, whatever.
Ryan Gielen: And I had this meltdown and I went to the school therapist. I think I was 10 years old and I was crying and I said, they, they won't stop making fun of me for being fat. And she said, have you tried eating more fruits and vegetables? Now, I know that that's hyper-specific to, to a weight or body image thing, but, but think about it for a second.
Ryan Gielen: She was saying, how can we fix you? Not they're wrong. You are worthy of love and friendship and kindness and empathy. How do we fix you? And that is exactly excuse me. That is exactly what young people often hear. If a parent reacts to their stutter. Bye. Let us fix this stutter. And I, it took me so long to put a finger on how much I identified with that eight year old kid in the middle of the stage.
Ryan Gielen: All I knew was on a visceral level. I wanted to take my camera, whatever money I could put together, whatever energy I could give to this and fight on behalf of that kid and all the kids in say, and all the young people who stuttered in the country and in the world, I just wanted to go fight on their behalf.
Ryan Gielen: And my, my tool is a camera. And it took so long to really dig into why that was. And it, because no matter what's going on, we have this tiny, tiny, little funnel that we try to shove every young person through. And that funnel is normal. And if you have anything outside of that little tiny tunnel You are made to feel less than to varying degrees and by different people in different structures and whatever, but the idea that we try to funnel young people into normal, instead of destroying that tunnel entirely, is really problematic. So I set out to make a movie that not only would tell young people who stutter you are worthy of love and friendship and kindness, and joy and enjoying every single life experience at your age, no matter what, not only to talk to them, but hopefully, and this is why I'm so thrilled that someone like discovery channel came along and got it. But to hopefully speak to people like me and people like my friends who have gone their entire lives thinking they've never met anyone who stuttered. And that disfluency is a problem to be fixed. I wanted to reach anyone who might encounter people who stutter and not just people who stutter in the film.
Ryan Gielen: That was my.
Uri Schneider: You're doing it, you're doing it. So it sounds like there was this human message of like you, it took a while, but you realize that something about this kid standing up there with, as you said, you know, the expectation or anticipation, it could be that he didn't even get laughed at or ridiculed other times, but it could be that that was something that in his mind he anticipated that wasn't something he could ever possibly do.
Uri Schneider: And he's standing there waiting for. What's the world going to tell me, you know, and all kids are listening. Right? So what the world's your, your dad of young people, I'm a dad of four young people they're looking to us and it's less about what we say. It's more about what we do and that micro-expressions and nonverbal messages, you know, does our jaw drop when they drop the milk or when they have a misstep or they misspell something or miscalculate something.
Uri Schneider: I have a little hiccup in their speech. How do we message to them that they're perfectly perfect, perfectly whole, even in those moments where they make mistakes, I love it. And I think I didn't grow up with the experience you grew up with. Um, I had other experiences that that definitely pale in comparison, but for me, they were my Mount Everest and all of us know that feeling of not fitting in some way or somehow some degree.
Uri Schneider: And to us, it was the biggest thing. Even if, to someone else, like you had it easy, buddy. Okay. Okay. We can each honor each other's experiences, but that's what I was saying before. I think that, that kid's standing up there. He is showcasing the best of humanity. And the question is, as you said, what were the ingredients that went into that moment that led up to that moment of that kid taking center stage, taking them.
Uri Schneider: And doing his thing, you know, and the courage. Um, I keep coming back to Dan Greenwald. We went to NSA to summer in Austin, Texas, and he spoke about the courage muscle and that the human creature power is courage in the face of fear. We can transcend fight flight that kid had the fight flight and he just stood there and he was and was present there was a community of people in the audience that, that gave space held space and gave them a big fat high five. And like you said, he walks different, leaving the stage and we walk different. That's the key. He wakes up that kid inside of us that we wish. So the power of parents and adults, teachers being champions for young people, uh, the research is incredible that the difference between and underprivileged kid from some place with everything stacked against him. The difference between that kid or some kid with all the privilege in the world, the diversity in any one, becoming a statistic or becoming a success story. The difference is not how much money they have in the bank. What they ate for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. It's one caring adult. And if you had one caring adult in your life, you're set, you're set. That could be the impact that makes all difference. You know, at scale are making that difference, being that champion. What, what did you discover after the, after the initial inspiration of seeing that kid take center stage, what did you discover?
Uri Schneider: Uh, in terms of the different pieces of input that went into that young person and the other young people who really were so exemplary that you were able to follow and meet, obviously there's the camp experience. If you want to just reflect on, when you pulled back the curtain and you got into this world, what did, what were some of the the incredible gains assets that you saw from the kids and from the people who put their time, effort and money into creating opportunities and opening doors for all these youngsters.
Ryan Gielen: I think, I think part of the, part of the brilliance of what taro Alexander and say does is they're focused on in many cases, the arts on self-expression is really a perfect fit for helping young people who stutter gain self-esteem gain confidence and start to believe that it's okay to stutter because young people in general are much deeper, much more complex than I think we give them credit for in a lot of cases to say to them here, here's the. It's it's here for you, whether it's writing, painting performance, um, it's such an immediate way to open a kid up to starting to believe they can express themselves and starting to believe they should express themselves when so much of their life is other people telling them to shut up, to stop expressing themselves to hide.
Ryan Gielen: Um, it's, it's sort of just an immediate. Remedy for what the day-to-day experience of a young person who stutters is, is like that, that was, that was very clear to me right off the bat that there that's the brilliance or at least one of the sort of brilliant things that say does. Um, I think the other thing I saw that fundamentally challenged me to be a better person in all of my interactions.
Ryan Gielen: Is the way that taro listens to people. You see a lot of this in the film. Um, you see, and especially if you participate in anything with say, you'll see it firsthand, but the way that taro stops moving, stops looking around, stops talking, and just stands present. When he is engaging with a young person who stutters.
Ryan Gielen: Again, I, I don't mean to overuse this word, but it's revolutionary because it's not something that any of us are really trained in our lives to do. It's not a practice that is common. It's not a practice that you work on in school. This sort of like active slash passive listening of when a young person speaks.
Ryan Gielen: How still can you be? How, how much eye contact can you get? It with an expression. You mentioned expressions in microexpressions with an expression that says I'm here, I'm participating. I'm not judging and you will have the time you need to speak. Um, that, that was the other thing to challenge me to be a better person and a better listener, because I was so used to communicating with people, excuse me, with people who were fluent.
Ryan Gielen: And I, I was even in a. Uh, teaching artist for five years in New York city public schools, where we would go in and teach leadership and self-esteem through arts programs. And I had gotten so comfortable with like being in charge and, and being a personality to these kids and like showing self-esteem to try and get self-esteem back from them, you know, to, to try and elicit self-esteem that I had never stopped to think of how powerful could it be.
Ryan Gielen: If I said less and did less and just waited and just gave space and created space. And so that, that was the other sort of magical thing that I saw and that I hope people, I hope people recognize it in the film when they watch taro Alexander in the film. I hope people are like, oh, that is how an adult should engage with not, not just young people with disfluency, but young people period.
Ryan Gielen: And I've, I've tried to incorporate that in my relationships with friends, with colleagues, with my wife, with my kids, you know, it's, it's really, yeah. It's, it's just very moving to me and I hope other people feel that way too.
Uri Schneider: I think all they have to do is watch the preview of my beautiful stutter. And you can feel how authentic what Ryan is saying comes through because I watched it prior to this conversation and it struck me when you got a you got what, like under two minutes you include in that trailer, a young person sitting down at center court at the camp and, and the screen just hold space for this kid. You did it through that trailer. You know, I think in a fast paced world and I, I like the word revolutionary because it's counter culture.
Uri Schneider: The world is moving quicker. Everything is snappier. There's more things pulling at our attention. All of us have so much on our minds and different devices, whether it's our phones or wearables or whatever, just slicing and splicing our attention for all young people. And especially someone who stutters the greatest gift is a little bit more response time, a little bit of putting something on hold of letting them know they are more important than your step count buzzing or, you know, some other lesser important thing.
Uri Schneider: But otherwise the message that. We're so caught up with everything buzzing around us, whether it's tech or other things pulling on our time and attention, kids need to know that they matter. Otherwise the message they get is all these other things matter more. So, um, I'm right with you. Every time I watch your film, every time I engage with people who stutter and then parents, um, and tarot in particular tarot, anyone that's been around tarot, I think would agree.
Uri Schneider: They've become inspired as to what's possible, you know, taro and his. Uh, and his entire family and the team that say are exemplary in that way in terms of how they hold space. And it's not because they don't have energy and they're not jumping beans. Taro is one of the biggest jumping beans I know all the more credit to him, his ability to hold and give space.
Uri Schneider: And you dropped a little bomb there, which is parents want to hear more about their kid's day at school. People want to have deeper conversations. The more you talk the less you'll hear from the other. Whether that's because you're caught up in your words or you're filling up the space that you could otherwise share.
Uri Schneider: It's in the silence that a person has an opportunity to take a chance, take a turn. And it's in the silence, whether it's in comedy film, uh, Barack Obama punctuating his speeches with space and pausing it's in that space that people do the processing of understanding of listening and taking to heart.
Uri Schneider: And it's in the space that people have a chance to formulate the best of what they can share and get it out and share it with the world. So the best way to get other people talking is to shut up and listen. Um, very powerful takeaway if you want to take one practical takeaway. Um, so what, what about for you?
Uri Schneider: And, you know, I think that was a big part of, you're still not a person who stutters, but you know, how is stuttering kind of woven its way into. Work into your outlook, into the fiber of how you run your family, your business, your.
Ryan Gielen: I think so. So the young people featured in the film, there's Malcolm, who is nine years old. When I start, uh, Sarah and Emily who are 1516 when I start or will Davis, who is 18 when I started he's graduating from say and moving on and going to college, um, and Juliana, who is, um, 15, when I start the. The diversity in the film.
Ryan Gielen: And they all come from different areas of the country, different socioeconomic statuses, different family situations, seeing the diversity in the film, but in every situation, there is a sincerity and a kindness and talent and depth and, and like, it was so. Such a reminder of what we miss, what we miss out on.
Ryan Gielen: When we judge a book by its cover or by a judge, a person by their fluency, or disfluency every time I would talk to these, these young people or their families in some cases, their teachers, and this is. I would just be reminded of like how much I've lost out on in life by moving too quickly, past a person or past a relationship or past a conversation with someone I think I know, or I work with, or I'm friends with it's just slowed me down so much and made me so much more engaged with, with individual.
Ryan Gielen: Right. As opposed to my own schedule. And I'm grateful for that. And I keep, I come back to it a lot. It was life-changing and again, I hope that's what people experience when they, when they see the film. So, so one of the things I, one of my, one of the things I pitched when I was going out and trying to find money here, or like trying to like patch together, funny, it's one of the reasons it took six years and I was constantly trying to patch together a little bit more money, a little bit more money, a little bit more money.
Ryan Gielen: And it's because one of the reasons was so hard to raise money is people don't understand what is so pressing and important about this film or about changing how we engage with kids who stutter. But I would say to them, I still think like this, I still, I would say, if you let's say you go out to a meeting or you go out to drinks or whatever, and it's one person around the table has a speech disfluency, let's say they stutter when you come home that night and you're talking to your wife or your husband. And you're like, oh, I had this really interesting meeting. There was someone who stuttered in it and, and. Jumping in and we would have to wait. And you're like talking about stuttering from your point of view.
Ryan Gielen: There's never been a film where somebody else around the table will be like, did you see, did you see my beautiful studies, this documentary about kids who stutter and it's crazy. Cause you'll never think this. And you'll never, if you've never seen him, you got to see this, that films never existed. The closest thing we've had is the king speech, the movie, or these terrible viral videos that come out of the singing competitions.
Ryan Gielen: Every. Where every year they find a person who stutters, they follow them home. They show them stuttering at home, and then they show them singing beautifully. And that's what gets the applause. The only concept we have until my beautiful starter is that the victory with someone who stutters is when they can be fluent and that's pop cultures, entire prison through which they show.
Ryan Gielen: It's tragic that they stutter, but watch this arc and now they're fluent and that's the victory and what that sets up for every person around the world who stutters is you are a tragedy until you're fluent. So when you ask, how has stuttering in come into and stayed in my life? That, that is the thing that I hope to change and that I keep engaging with over and over and over again is I'm trying to engage with popular culture that only knows how to talk about stuttering as a tragedy until someone is fluent.
Ryan Gielen: And that's a big victory. And I want to change that. I want the documentary to be the conversation piece instead of the king speech or instead of the viral videos that come out of the singing competitions. I want people when they engage with stuttering to be like. Wait, I just met someone who stutters as I gotta go.
Ryan Gielen: I got to watch the documentary. Now that's the thing that I wanted is I remember now I wanted to go see that on discovery. Plus, I wanted to go get that on nights. I wanted to watch that film because I do think the more people can see it outside of the stuttering community, the more we can change the prism through which popular culture and culture in general engages with stuttering.
Uri Schneider: Subtle corrections, you said you want to do it correction.
Uri Schneider: You're doing it to. There is I couldn't agree more, you know, the celebration of people where the story arc is, look at them here and look at them now, you know, all fixed up and all polished up. I don't hear any stuttering now. Wow, look, they did it. You could do it too. And you can get your plastic surgery and either cover up or sell out or put on the performance that you think everyone wants to see.
Uri Schneider: But what if, what if you could be that hero just as you are? So the one challenge I would put out there and it goes back to the power that you said. Of the arts and of creative expression, true story from the summer, there was a film. So you think you can dance? I don't think I was a candidate. I'm not sure if you were either, but, um, you know, there were some really good dancers and one guy was Shane Garcia.
Uri Schneider: I don't know if you remember this. This was in 2010 and Shane Garcia was one of those guys. It was a reality, you know, performance show kind of thing. And Shane is, is followed, like you said, by the cameras and he stutters. And we've been saying that before your film, but, uh, all the more apropos with the film, my beautiful stutter, just kind of put that in there as many times as we can.
Uri Schneider: And Shane gets up there and he introduces himself and you see the judges and one of the judges power to them says, I see that you stutter, take your time. You have as much time as you need. And we're here to enjoy what you have to share with us and just kind of named the elephant in the room and made it clear.
Uri Schneider: That this person should know that what they have to say is going to be given the airtime that it, that it requires that it deserves. Shane goes on to perform the most emotionally riveting dance I'd ever seen in my life ever. Bone breaking, uh, animation. There's a whole mix of things, but through his dance, he was expressing both expression, but also feelings of hurt the bruises and the stuckness at times.
Uri Schneider: I followed slash stocked. For about 10 years. And then this year it happened that I managed to connect with him. We did a podcast. It's the only podcast where I have dancing. So it's kind of odd to have a podcast where people are dancing, but it happened here on transcending stuttering. And then, and then I was meeting with a young woman this summer and she was so in the dumps of header, stuttering, I said, what really gets you?
Uri Schneider: What, like, what's your giant, what's your jam? You know? Like where are you delight? She's like, I love dancing. Okay. Oh, that's cool. Like, I know a guy who's like super successful dancer and he stutters quite nicely. Would you like to speak to him? She's like, oh, that'd be amazing. More because he was on. So you think you could dance?
Uri Schneider: She wasn't really ready to engage on the stuttering level, but suddenly her stutter and his stutter became a card of access, kind of like these kids with Paul Rudd being interested in stuttering because of his performing history, George Springer, and other stars who stutter today instead of openly integrate role models for young people.
Uri Schneider: Anyway, I send them a D. And he's like, yeah, I'm available. And right there on the spot, Shane Garcia jumps on and we do a live video chat. And what that did for this young person was not all that different than that little boy on that stage. And I think connecting the dots, giving people role models, seeing that they can make it, like you're saying, whether it's seeing it on the big screen or connecting with these super individuals and role models side plug, totally just kind of came to.
Uri Schneider: We are working on creating a community of peers and mentors that would be open for teens and open for adults. And also for speech language pathologists, you can hit us up on transcending, stuttering.co to sign up for like early access to that. But the. A getting it on the screen is like one level. The next level would be some sort of live experience, maybe going to a camp, another opportunity to be having some direct content, whether it's email correspondence or a video chat or asynchronous WhatsApp or something.
Uri Schneider: But realizing there are role models out there that have stood in your shoes truly and can show you that it's possible. And the things you're dreaming of don't need to be extinguished and you don't need to sell out in order to achieve those. Again, we live in a time where the president of the United States is a person who grew up with a stutter at the age of 16, as you were bullied, as you said, you know, he was bullied for being a person who stutters, uh, he, his nickname was dash.
Uri Schneider: Not because he was so fast, but because he spoke like Morse code. Um, so I think what you said is, is awesome. Awesome. From all the experiences. You just mentioned any specific tips, suggestions for people who are speech, language pathologists for young people in the schools or teachers in the classrooms, you know, being an outsider, but also someone involved in the arts involved in education and having embedded yourself and really committed yourself to being such a champion.
Uri Schneider: Um, what are some takeaways you might offer for the teachers out there and a speech therapist out there
Ryan Gielen: I've been really, I've been really, really. Honored and flattered and like overjoyed with the SLP reaction to the film. Ash has been a huge supporter. Excuse me. ASHA has been a huge supporter. Um, NSSLHA has been a huge supporter.
Ryan Gielen: I think of the two hundred and fifty two hundred seventy five screenings we've done, half of those have been, um, with SLP groups all over the country or SLP practices, even individual practices have like booked screenings of the. Yeah. At first it was in person and then virtually, and like, it's just been really, really cool to see and to get to know SLPs and how genuine and sincere they are about trying to make life better for kids who start our kids with this fluency.
Ryan Gielen: Like I didn't, I didn't know anything about them even after making the film. My only impression was that a lot of young people had struggled with their SLP because of the feeling of, you know, they're trying to fix me. I think that was just a more common thing for me to hear about, because you don't hear as much about the SLPs that are doing a great job or giving space or whatever, you know, I was only hearing sort of the downside.
Ryan Gielen: Um, so I just to start out by saying, I don't speak SLP, you know, I, I don't have in the six years that I was working me, neither am I, I'm still
Uri Schneider: trying to figure out how to talk. I don't talk to SLP. I.
Ryan Gielen: So, I, I, I apologize in advance if this isn't sort of based in, in the, in the lingo or in the training or in the philosophy.
Ryan Gielen: What I come back to all the time is every young person I, I spoke with and got to know through the process of making the film has a shell that they put up to get through the day. And. If their home life is tough, that shell goes up from the minute they opened their eyes in bed in the morning to the minute they're able to fall asleep at night, the shell is up right.
Ryan Gielen: And that that's common and that's something I heard over and over and over. We have different versions of that. And so the thing that I always try to talk about when speaking with SLPs or SLP groups is how do you make your practice a place where the shell can come. If the, if the young person feels like they are being evaluated on every syllable, on every stutter, on every block, on every repetition and that there's a disappointment or a lack of, um, enjoyment of the time spent together.
Ryan Gielen: If the, if the kid isn't moving toward fluency, the shell probably stays up. So how do you, in whatever, in whatever the proper SLP terminology is or training, how do you just make it clear That you believe this young person is worthy of the things they probably aren't experiencing worthy of, of, of patience worthy of empathy, worthy of love, worthy of the friendship, worthy of the joy, how do you make your practice feel like a place where they are worthy and they are not being judged and are not being, you know, fixed because that is probably the only thing that will bring the shell down.
Ryan Gielen: Um,
Uri Schneider: I'll just piggyback on that for ones. I think to recognize that whether you're a teacher, certainly if you're a person who gets to spend time with a young person in a small setting, let's say half hour, a week or two half hours a week, that is such a precious opportunity. And as a classroom teacher, the time you have with that young person in your space is a very impressionable opportunity.
Uri Schneider: And so whatever small steps you can take, uh, can have a very life altering. Because it just takes again, one, one great experience of someone believing in you and messaging to you that you are worth it, that you are great, that you have talent, that you have gifts that you're celebrated in this space, that you're part of this, you belong here.
Uri Schneider: Those messages are life changing far more than. And I think to give credit, or at least to the intentions and best intentions of so many therapists out there, the intention is to help someone get out of something that seems challenging, that we wouldn't know how to do. Um, but Trying to fix it at the surface symptom level does far more harm than good, very often.
Uri Schneider: And you have to start inside out and you have to see people where they're at as human beings and what everyone needs is to know that they are loved, that they are loved. And the way you do that, as you do things that you would do for. Who's an adult. And what you said, Ryan, I totally give credit to terror.
Uri Schneider: I no longer call kids, kids. I call them young people. That's a big terrorism, you know, talking about kids, kiddos, but not just talking about them as young people, treating them as young people with, uh, with respect and, and they have, they have an opinion that their voice matters. And when you do that, what you're doing is not only listening to them and treat them the way they should be treated You're instilling the kind of values that are going to sprout and blossom as a young person, whether they stutter or not, that they will blossom and show the kind of integrity and honesty and personality that they have authentically to bring to the world, as opposed to living some shadow life that they think the world wants to see because the world wouldn't tolerate who they really are.
Uri Schneider: Yeah, so that's a good one for us.
Ryan Gielen: I would just want to piggyback, I'd like to piggyback on your piggyback for just a second. I got it. I got broad shoulders that literally literally the first day of filming, I was filming Sarah and Emily in a joint interview. And I want to give them credit for fundamentally altering the direction of what I thought I was.
Ryan Gielen: Because in the first interview, 30, 40 minutes into talking to them for the first time ever. These two 15 year olds were standing across from me being extraordinarily vulnerable and saying things like because of the way I'm treated. I wonder if anyone will ever love me the way I want to be loved in a relationship.
Ryan Gielen: And I'm sorry, I'm getting a little emotional talking about it. Cause I'm standing across from two 15 year olds. I just met and I'm, I'm asking them to S to tell me about their lives, because I think I can help other young people like them and what they are saying in order to try and reach other young people like themselves, that they don't even care that I'm there.
Ryan Gielen: It's, they, they are hoping that this will translate to reach other 15. They're just revealing this extraordinary pain and fear. And as an adult, I know, I know that they can, they can live the most fulfilling lives imaginable, but I'm not going to be able to convince them of that. So it's this helpless feeling and it, it, it just gave me so much fire to want to keep going to know that if they're saying this there's thousands of young people who are feeling this way because of just because it takes them a little longer to speak. So, so Sarah and Emily, that vulnerability fundamentally altered what I was doing for the better, because of how sincere and genuine and deep they are.
Ryan Gielen: And, you know, you, you, you were talking a second ago. Like, if you, if you can create this space, you can, you can elicit so much from these young people and, and just to yes, and that we so underestimate the depth and intellect and beauty of what these young people are thinking and feeling that you can get to that in ways that will change your life in ways that will, will shock you, you know?
Ryan Gielen: And so. I tried to talk about that a little bit too, because I had the young people that participated. This is a perfect example. I asked them at the end of the interview, I said, you know, how should I end the film? If you could wave a magic wand, you know, how should the film end and what it would, what would you want the big climax of the movie to be?
Ryan Gielen: And Emily a PWS looked at me and she goes, I think it should just be a quiet moment where someone is stuttering, openly and beautifully And just let them stutter. And that's how we end the film. Like Emily told me on day one, how to end the film. That's how we end it. It's Juliana just giving her speech and stuttering openly.
Ryan Gielen: And I, one
Uri Schneider: of my, one of my all time, favorite human beings. So I've seen grow up in every sense of the word, uh, through the years and through different opportunities that she's had to shine and, and participate and give back and the say community big shout out. And Emily and Sarah and Malcolm, in addition to the, the whole team, I didn't mean to interrupt you.
Uri Schneider: You were not done there.
Ryan Gielen: No, no. And I actually, I apologize for this. I actually have to have to hop off at 11.
Uri Schneider: Yeah. We're going to, we're going to wrap here. I'm going to give, I'm going to say one more thing, which gives you a chance to think what would be your last parting wisdom that you want to share, but I'll just say this.
Uri Schneider: I think that, um, to piggyback on your piggyback on my piggyback, which was a piggyback on. If SLPs, if teachers, if parents could shift the narrative from forget about being so revolutionary. But if we listen to the stories of Phoebe Lou stutter through the film, my beautiful stutter, which Ryan so beautifully put into the world, which is now available on discovery plus, and other avenues through the world.
Uri Schneider: So many other films, transcending stuttering. When I stutter. The way we talk, all these documentary films, give a window to the public, into the inner worlds, inner voices, inner experiences of people who stutter. Those are the greatest opportunities to learn far more than textbooks alone or research alone could ever inform us.
Uri Schneider: And if you think about there's a 15 year old girl out there who thinks no one will ever love me, there's a little boy out there who thinks I really want to be a lawyer, but I think I'd have to talk a lot. I think I'll get good at math and do like accounting and the. So I think the goals we should set, obviously we can try to help people have a space to hear their words, but think big, think big think long-term how do you help that young person grow up to feel lovable and to know every day that the right person is going to see exactly what makes them so attractive.
Uri Schneider: So beautiful. So charming so much. The person they'd want to spend the rest of their life with, even if their speech has some hiccups. And I think my beautiful stutter and ending the film with Juliana like that. It's both a stutter can be beautiful, but also a person can be beautiful in the midst of imperfection in the midst of something that might look different or sound different.
Uri Schneider: But our, our radiants, our humanity can shine no matter what. And I just want to give you a big fist bump and, and power to you and encourage everybody to enjoy the film and spread the film, my beautiful stutter, um, and any parting wisdom, what would be like some partying inspirational takeaway that you would like to leave us
Ryan Gielen: with?
Ryan Gielen: It's it's a, it's an old cliche, but it's, it's really, really fitting people, especially young people. Usually don't remember what you said, but they remember how you made them feel. And I think SLPs, I know it's a tough position sometimes because a lot of times you have teachers or principals or school systems or parents breathing down your neck about, you know, hitting certain marks and in terms of fixing things.
Ryan Gielen: And like, I know it's a tough job and a tough position, but
Uri Schneider: it's a great, it's a great opportunity. Just go with the opportunity to make them tale something. Yeah,
Ryan Gielen: exactly.
Uri Schneider: Yeah. And if you need help, figuring out the part, Ryan was saying the report, writing the goal, writing the paperwork, we got your back.
Uri Schneider: But, uh, if we can enlist more people to be agents of change guides, allies for young people, it's going to make a world of difference for adults and for any adults out there, as long as you're breathing, there's time in the clock, everybody has an opportunity to turn a new page. So use the young people as examples of inspiration of anything as possible, but just know it's.
Uri Schneider: Never too late. And thank you, Ryan, for bringing this film to the world. Thanks for taking the time to share this with us. And we'll send some links in the notes, check out all these episodes on our blogPage@schneiderspeech.com slash our blog. And you can check out all the other things we're doing for speech language pathologists for teens who stutter for adults who stutter and the podcast continues to go.
Uri Schneider: So we'll be back with some more episodes this season. Thanks again, Ryan. For the.
Ryan Gielen: Thank you for having me. It's an honor to speak with you sincerely, and I really appreciate all the support. Thank you. Absolutely.