#69 Stuttering Doctor Treats All with Joseph Cornett
“The reframing that was most important and helpful was not focusing on minimizing the disfluency, but on maximizing its clean-ness. I’m not trying to prevent the blocks or the repetitions, but focusing on what are the things that you have learned to do to cope with them over the years that are not an inherent part of it, but are a distraction.”
Listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts or your favorite podcast platform. You can also watch the interview on YouTube.
BIO:
Joseph is finishing medical school this year at Columbia University in New York City and plans to begin a combined residency in Internal Medicine and Pediatrics. He hopes to work in global health for people of all ages and in under-resourced settings, and especially with adolescents and invisible struggles. Joseph’s experiences in healthcare and psychology include the Yale Child Study Center, New York-Presbyterian Hospital, the Queensland Centre for Mental Health Research (Australia), the Public Health Foundation of India, and Kijabe Hospital (Nairobi). He is an avid pianist-keyboardist and has found joy in leading and learning from such diverse music groups as the Broadway Haven Players and the Yale Gospel Choir. Joseph has had a stutter since the age of six, and his experience of stuttering has deepened his own development and identity in profound ways. Joseph hopes this audio format provides some personal insights and a feeling of solidarity with others whose stutters have impacted their own lives in unique and perhaps similar ways.
EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS
0:00 - 2:31 Intro
2:31 - 4:23 ‘Yes, And’ Approach
4:23 - 10:56 Cornett’s Childhood
10:56 - 13:37 Going to Kenya and the path to medicine
13:37 - 17:14 Dealing with Depression
17:14 - 21:23 Liability/Asset
21:23 - 26:38 Expecting Judgement from the World
26:38 - 30:16 Finding Your Voice
30:16 - 34:55 Working with Uri Schneider
34:55 - 40:12 Reframing Therapy
40:12 - 47:17 Dealing with Stuttering Today
47:17- 49:41 Persevering through a high stakes career
49:41- 53:00 Something you’d say to your past self.
53:00 - 54:11 Outro
MORE QUOTES
“Therapy of any sort, whether it's a physical or speech or psychiatric or psychologic requires a lot of work. And it requires someone who is willing to do practice things day by day.” - Joseph Cornett
“People are not thinking about you nearly as much as you think they are. They are thinking mostly about them, them selves. Every learns that at some point. And when you internalize that, life becomes a whole lot easier.” - Joseph Cornett
TRANSCRIPTION:
Uri Schneider: Wow. Well, this is an exciting one. Uh, Uri Schneider . Your host here, transcending stuttering. That's a big honor to have this opportunity for a conversation with Joseph Cornett. Um, I think you're going to enjoy this one and, uh, it's hard to give a proper introduction, but I had a chance to meet, uh, Joseph.
Uri Schneider: Earlier this year, uh, in preparation for what he's going through right now, which are interviews for his residency, he's, uh, finished his third year at Columbia, finished his fourth year at Columbia med school. And, um, he studied at Yale he's at Columbia. In addition to that, he's had some incredible opportunities and experiences in Australia, India, and Kenya, some very formative experience.
Uri Schneider: Um, he's incredibly insightful credibly well-spoken. He also has great interest in mental wellness and hobbies that take him into music, choir, drama, photography, and he also knows a thing or two about stuttering. So it's a great honor to introduce and to have with us, Joseph Cornett. Welcome.
Uri Schneider: Yeah. So as I always liked to open up what would be one thing you'd like people to know about you or you're excited to share that might not be in the formal bio or on your resume.
Joseph Cornett: You did a great job. Uh, so you aren't
Joseph Cornett: giving me much room here.
Joseph Cornett: Yeah, I would say a general trend, uh, that I have loved to have as I look back as being a Yes and on approach to my hobbies and to my work and to where I go and where I live and the route that I am having in, uh, medicine is one more way that I am trying to do that. Um, and so needed music being trained classically in an, in jazz in then.
Joseph Cornett: The gospel. Um, and now I'm having some new roles here in med school has been fun and trying to always grow what I have experienced with, um, and what I have learned of, uh, and what I can do.
Uri Schneider: What is that? Yes. And can you just expand on that? I think it's so profound. And you shared with me the impression that's made on some interviews and places you've been, what does it yes.
Uri Schneider: And mean to you and like, how does that have meaningful?
Joseph Cornett: I am glad that you find it, uh, profound, because I think the phrase came from you. Um,
Joseph Cornett: it is part of how I'm wired. And part of why I chose this field is it allows me to do a lot of the things that in my life I want to be able to do. Um, I had joked that the one thing I don't want to do is one thing and that a struggle that I have had, um, in my mind for years now is that I want to do multiple lifetimes of work in one lifetime.
Joseph Cornett: And. Finding a balance between my interests and between breadth and depth, um, is a challenge that I really enjoy. And I think you may hear me say again on the interview that I think that all meaningful work has a lot of challenges. And so. Find the work and that also includes hobbies, but the things that you do that have, uh, challenges that, um, engage you and make you feel, uh, fulfilled because you can't avoid challenges.
Joseph Cornett: And so the challenge of trying to balance my interests in how I want to use my time is one that I quite enjoy
Uri Schneider: love it. So we met a little less than six months ago. Uh, just about, I think it was June. Yeah. So that would put us just about six months ago. And, uh, it's been incredible to be on the ride with you.
Uri Schneider: It feels like going through, going through med school vicariously, um, But it's also been awesome to just get to know you, but, um, I came into the story late in your journey and your story, you know, a couple of chapters in, and the best chapters are yet to be written, but can you share, can you share something about, um, where you come from, the stock you come from and, and some of the experiences you've been through, cause looking at you now, Yeah, the spotlight's on you're all trimmed and, and sitting there all poised and crushing it.
Uri Schneider: We're catching it in the middle of interviews. Yes. In the middle of the zoom interviews for residency's from one of the great medical schools in the country, and you went to Yale, but, um, it hasn't been easy street for you. So I was wondering if you could just share like some of what you've been through, uh, some of the tougher chapters with the centering thing, just to understand and appreciate,
Uri Schneider: you know, where you going.
Joseph Cornett: The first, uh, the idea that, you know, this is late in my story. Um, it's nice to be at this point in my life where you could say that. And also say that I am quite, um, early in my own journey. And one thing that I am excited about for the kind of life work that I am aiming , that is you don't keep it until you're near the end.
Joseph Cornett: And I quite like that. So I was raised in north Caroline. Um, by a surgeon and a radiologist. And I joke that I must have inherited while I did inherit the love for medicine. I inherited what you must be a recessive gene. So one that they had, but did not show, uh, for a breadth and depth, a generalist rather than, rather than having a, a niche that you get really, really, uh, Becoming an expert at, and I
Joseph Cornett: I've had many, um, advantages in, in life, as well as many, uh, challenges and the advantages have made the challenges, much easier to handle when I have this whole, , UN network around me. , A, so when I was a younger kid, , I began to have my ? At, six or seven years old. I was already in speech therapy for some sounds.
Joseph Cornett: I wasn't yet missing my Rs. And in fact, I'm even as late as middle school, I was asked by one classmate, you have five was from England because of how. I said a good caugh rather than car. And when I began to have this ?, I continued with the same,
Joseph Cornett: the therapist and it was pretty intense. Uh, my ? Uh, and it has improved slowly as I have gotten older much like the stock market. It will have its ups and downs as it grows. And as a younger kid, I also had a pretty intense case of, um, ADH D pretty intense on the A part and on the H. And had some difficulties with being able to follow the social cues, the symbols of behavior.
Joseph Cornett: And so that was part of why. Although definitely not the only, re reason why I was bullied. You could say, but maybe ostracized, being perhaps more accurate in, the third and fourth and fifth grade and that left an imprint for, many years. And I have tried, at this point to hold on to how that felt so that when I am engaging with your mother, kids and adults, who feel like that, I am more, if I'm able to meet them where they are.
Joseph Cornett: I then went through, uh, your middle school and high school and music became more of a, a large, large role in who I was and how I, um, engage with my, peers and it was quite a privilege to get used to being on stage and being in a place where people wanted to have me on stage. And a compliment that has stuck with me from near the end of high school was the father of a classmates who said when a, a lot of, of these kids, uh, go up there.
Joseph Cornett: I really want them to do well, and I get really nervous for them. I can see that they are too, when you go on stage, I can, um, uh, sit back and watch it because I know that it will be great. And because you look so. The comfortable up there. And that was when I began to learn that like, yes, I knew that I was good at what I did, um, uh, musically, but I was still incredibly nervous.
Joseph Cornett: Uh, if you were right, right next to me, if you could watch my hands as they trembled, but I was supposed to beginning to learn to show. A confidence that was, um, authentic um, but you don't show that until I believed it, myself and the act of, um, of acting that that way was a feedback loop that I can continue to investigate as I got older, um, another large childhood, life experience that really impacted me was the ability to, travel with my, parents.
Joseph Cornett: My, uh, my, uh, you, you, your mother being a surgeon to, uh, to Kenya and get to be a part of the cleft lip and cleft pallet repair teams and. Seeing at that young age, the age of 13 was my first time. And I have been at been able to go back to six times and I'm an offer eight, a few weeks each going from a very privileged place in the U S and.
Joseph Cornett: The privileged place within that to, to a place, uh, with a lot of, uh, naked injustice and inequity. One thing that I really, uh, w you have wrestled with as a sensitive kid, and it formed what I hope is not a, uh, quarter life crisis, but rather an eighth life crisis. How do I make sense of a world where this happens?
Joseph Cornett: I can no longer ignore it. It's not just an ads on TV. I have interviewed these people. I have worked more with them. I have held the parents as they've cried, and as they hope for their young kids,
Joseph Cornett: and I came to this worldview and this sense of purpose and aim that I still have, have had, and have now have, if all this is out there. The best way for me to live my life is to aim you my stuff, uh, your, uh, your right at it. I've lost my blinders and I'm not the kind of person who wants to have them back on now.
Joseph Cornett: And so, rather than having a huge amount of the corner of my eye, I might as well be looking right at it. And so I knew that I, I wanted to work in global health of some sort, and now I would also really enjoy working with underserved populations here, whether that's, uh, with refugees, for those who have grown up here and are being very much underserved, uh, by their nation.
Joseph Cornett: And it was that, that brought me into medicine actually rather than the other way around. And so this growth of my, in my interest in global health and medicine and my roles in, in music, and then this slow realization as I get older. Of one people are not thinking about you, you have a nearly as much as you think they are.
Joseph Cornett: They are thinking mostly about them, them selves. That's a thing that I think every, uh, person learns at some point. And when you internalize that a life becomes a whole lot easier to, uh, you gotta. And beginning to internalize what I have to offer and how I can use the harder chapters in my life. I mean, I'm including, uh, a, uh, 18 month episode of depression that.
Joseph Cornett: Really had no trigger. I was the happiest I had been in my life. Uh, I'm up to that point right before it happened at age 14 or so, and I had a family who, uh, Viewed what I was going through as real and important. And I was able to get access to, uh, resources and I had a school that was willing to work, with me as I had been doing quite well in school and they were able to be flexible with when I turned things in and was able to come out of it with.
Joseph Cornett: And using a wide range of the resources that I had, including the therapy and medication and exercise like you're working out. And that all really helped to quite near the end of it already realize that it had given me a deeper and richer understanding of the. Emotional landscape of being a person and I kind of intuition for what it's like to go through.
Joseph Cornett: Yeah. you have various other kinds of mental health, um, uh, challenges that all involve a certain degree of irrationality that you might be aware of, but still you can't help in the moment. And that has really helped me even, um, interact with friends and family and strangers and the patients now, and being able to speak to the vulnerability of being a human being and being able to still be confident in that space. And as someone who stutters, the inherent sense of vulnerability there, and the confidence that you can have and it doesn't have to be exclusive those are not two ends of one access. They are two different axes. And if you can maximize your expression of vulnerability, and also, uh, you maximize your voice and composure and grace as a doctor, I've found that that has really helped me meet my.
Joseph Cornett: Get patients now and in the future where they are and help them feel empowered in a really vulnerable time in their lives.
Uri Schneider: As you know, I can listen all day. Um, I wanted, I wanted to just, um, L you, if I could. It was a wonderful story. You've told me about an experience in India. Would you like to just share that?
Uri Schneider: Uh,
Uri Schneider: oh
Uri Schneider: yes. Then we can go into this, this paradox that, yeah. And then going into this paradox, you just talked about how these are two separate axes, the vulnerability and the poise. Um, but I know there was that experience in India that was quite impressionable
Joseph Cornett: . I was able to spend a summer in a New Delhi in India.
Joseph Cornett: I'm after my junior year of the college, through the global health scholars program at Yale. And I was the only, the only foreigner in my, uh, group. And I was driving with a coworker one, one day and she remarked to me, you sound like Obama. And a few things went through my head one. Yes, I do have an American accent.
Joseph Cornett: And so that makes, me sound more like him than anyone else here, but two it, it was, and she explained the way that I. think a lot about what I say. And I realized at that point that I had dovetailed my love for being precise with my word choice with I have these pauses in my speech that I don't have control over, but over the years I had worked on some sub the conscious mechanics to.
Joseph Cornett: Make them sound like they were on purpose and to also use them to have more time to kinda think about them. But what I said, rarely does my mind get ahead. I'm sorry. Rarely does my mouth get ahead of my mind that that was a touch of irony there. Uh, and that comment stuck with me because it showed that I could use What felt like a, liability and to be Frank it is still these pauses in my speech that i couldnt really control to make it an asset and make it a way that people really try to listen to what I have to say, uh, because I give them space to process and because I clearly give a lot of thought to what I say.
Joseph Cornett: And so maybe they should too. So it was a quite a lovely thing. to have heard at that age?
Uri Schneider: Indeed. And, and at the same time, nothing is black and white. Nothing is absolute. So here you are six months ago or so, and, and you're doing pretty well. And at the time you said to me, like, actually things are pretty good.
Uri Schneider: I'm really reaching out because I'm looking down the road a couple months ahead. We'll be having these interviews residency and. It's going to be this it's it's pandemic times. It's going to be an interview like this with a talking head. And, and that might be of all the things that I do. I might be judged for, you know, one aspect or one facet.
Uri Schneider: And you were concerned about the liability that might be, might be there as confidence as you were with everything else. What were you thinking then? Cause you seem to have your head on your shoulders. You seem to have this really, rich human wholesome, you know, really good outlook on humans and on your intrapersonal landscape.
Uri Schneider: And you've had this wonderful compliment that. The cadence of your speech, while one might say is a, is a stuttering disorder. Someone else says, it sounds like Obama. Um, the way that you're surfing it. And, uh, and at the same time, there's a certain concern that the world is going to judge you unfairly.
Uri Schneider: They're going to size you up as less than you really are. Can you just share like what that thinking was like? And because with everything you said, One would think, Hey, it's, it's a walk in the park. I mean, if you just listen to what you said, put it into play everything simple, right? Because the world isn't thinking about you, as much as you were thinking about what they're thinking about, what you're thinking about, and once you recognize that things
Joseph Cornett: get easier.
Joseph Cornett: Um, oh boy. Oh boy. Yes. I, I am glad you asked.
Uri Schneider: Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Joseph Cornett: So it was years in the making and. I have noticed that when I think about my future and I think years ahead or in broad strokes, I, actively and passively, prevent my speech from factoring in now, I, would not say I'm going to go be an auctioneer, but in terms of the, the Heights of what I think I can accomplish, but, uh, when it comes to the next step, the next phase.
Joseph Cornett: I am quite, um, aware, um, of it and you up until being in med school and being in the hospital in med school, my ?stimmer had been largely a, social, hurdle to make a first impression to introduce yourself at a party to, give a, big, talk to jump into the middle of an active group, a conversation that is humming along and you have this more halting cadence. I had slowly worked through that over the years, and now I was in the hospital where it was now, not just a social and personal thing, but also professional and a lot of how a, your medical student is assessed is on their oral presentations on busy rounds.
Joseph Cornett: In a busy hospital and there are lots of words that you can't dance around. They're long words. You have to say them in this order. And so my flexibility, my adaptability and Kim, a conversation, I felt I wasn't able to use that as well. And so that took months to work through and I had to compensate by getting really good at the structure of the oral
Joseph Cornett: I gave a presentation. I just had to put in more, more effort, man. I grew to the point where it was no longer, a strong impediment. They do still take maybe 25% longer than what someone else's would, but was able to learn how to have, give us some kind of poise during those as well, uh, during a pretty intense cognitive load.
Joseph Cornett: But now the amount was on Zoom, so all of my skills that I had learned and the ways that I had come to view it in a whole holistic way, when I am in the person and I can use non-verbal and how I hold myself in my body language, I felt like that was going to be a concern and also zoom gets you more in your own head.
Joseph Cornett: You can see yourself on the screen, you get high Yama yourself. And I always do. In fact, I just will now, and you have less time, but you also, um, zoom is a heightened state and I had done well on interviews in the past. Um, but zoom was a new medium that I had not done a, a lot of, because most of med school or being in the hospital, it was still in the person rather, rather, rather than over zoom for where I was in my training.
Joseph Cornett: And I was really nervous. How would I do, would it influence my ability to showcase who I am and how I think. And how I say and what I say and would these skills that I had learned still be useful. And so I began this a months long journey with you.
Uri Schneider: Yeah. It's amazing. It's amazing. Cause I remember one of the, one of the goals that you had that you articulated that I thought it was so profound. And so telling was if you're walking out of the lobby of your building, And the person who's servicing the door says, you know, good morning. You just want to be able to say, Hey, good morning.
Uri Schneider: Thanks you too. And just be able to just do that without a thought or care in the world and not worrying about the timing
Joseph Cornett: of it. Yes. Yes. Another one is
Uri Schneider: also another one was getting interviewed by the television station. Like if there was. freak weather event or some, yes, some events happened nearby and you get stopped on the street
Joseph Cornett: and, and, and I would, and I was hypothesizing what I would do and I'll probably say to them or what I had always imagined, and I would need to go through the effort of changing. Uh, you know, what I would say would be, uh, you know, you don't want me on your pro program. Uh, I. You know, we'll not make good TV for you.
Joseph Cornett: Uh, you're going to want to interview somebody else who can, uh, be more engaging. And that would be, I think, a way of deflecting from my own anxiety. And to be honest, being on this podcast, I have not put a lot of my recorded voice. out there And no one likes their voice when it's recorded at, at, at first.
Joseph Cornett: But I think that if you have a speech impediment, the, instinct is to have an extra, visceral response and if I want to be an advocate, I need to have more and more of my voice. out there to advocate And so this is actually a great first step one could say, and putting out my recorded voice with, someone who knows quite well, how my voice works.
Joseph Cornett: Absolutely. But It is a thing that has held me back from doing what I want to do. And we are all to an extent, our own worst enemy. Uh, We all could punch our way through a drywall if we could, but our bodies for good reason, prevent us from even trying to do that. You have to really overcome a lot of, um, your, um, inborn instincts.
Joseph Cornett: If you want to do that. And sometimes those instincts aren't helpful. Uh, Yes, I won't break my fist, but also I won't be on a whole lot of podcasts and YouTube channels and being able to put my voice out there and I need to work, um, actively against that. And as I get older, that is the thing I want to do more and more on the internet because you know where things are happening.
Uri Schneider: Most people want to appreciate this, and we're not going to go into the depth of the story. And I definitely think Dr. Fred Bombak would get it. Out of seeing uri schneider hosting doctor and that this will definitely be the first of many times that Joseph cornett's voice will be heard, but it's not by accident that I mentioned that goal and tied into this, this opportunity, this chance that you're taking to do this, which is not to be taken for granted.
Uri Schneider: You said yes. A long time ago, but it took a long time to actually take the leap. And so I'm very grateful. What could you share, um, less about anything else, more about your experience in the six months of work that we did together? We had, it was interesting cause it was during COVID. It was mostly zoom.
Uri Schneider: Then there was this window of time where we were able to meet in person, but the idea of, uh, of longer meetings kind of stack together and then the cadence, uh, spreading things out as needed. But on the front end kind of packing in some, what was the I'm interested in, just in your experience, the reflection on the cadence of it, the substance of it, what was, what was valuable to you in that.
Uri Schneider: Process that helped you start doing more things that you want it to be doing.
Joseph Cornett: Okay. So one thing that I think you do quite well in your, um, approach and I became, and already having had some experience to witness the CBT or the, uh, The cognitive behavioral therapy, approach.
Joseph Cornett: How do you conceptualize your thoughts and your feelings and your actions and how do you have those be in line? And I actually spent years on that in high school. well after I was no longer, uh, clinically depressed because it was right up my, my alley, that kind of work. I mean, you get to.
Joseph Cornett: cerebralize I don't think that's a word, uh, how
Uri Schneider: you, how you can contact the people that Webster.
Joseph Cornett: Right? How do you think about how you feel combines? Two of my favorite things. And you incorporate that well, and that was one thing that, yeah, even still I had to make room for and, uh, the work that we did because I wanted to work on the mechanics and how do I do these concrete tools to make my speech more fluent?
Joseph Cornett: And what you did, I'm almost seriously. Uh, but also, um, above board was incorporate how I felt about my stutterance. In in the moment before and after and identifying what were the places where I could have the most growth, um, for all of my talk about learning to have confidence and poise amidst it when you're in the, uh, the middle of having a block.
Joseph Cornett: A lot of those mechanisms go flying out the window and learning how to hold them in as they are struggling to, uh, uh, fly away. What is the thing to work on the deliberately and also how to reframe how to speak about my stutter to myself. and to others. And I had already made a, a lot of ground in the years prior, but had a lot of room left to grow and still do.
Joseph Cornett: And I use quite a lot of what I learned from you and how to frame it in my interviews actually. And that has been quite wonderful to be able to lean on being able to have an intensity of, uh, therapy too is important.
Joseph Cornett: The therapy of any sort, whether it's a physical or speech or psychiatric or psychologic requires a lot of work. And it requires someone who is willing to do practice things day by day. And with each new time that you meet you process more things, you delve deeper and you learn more things that you can work on.
Joseph Cornett: And. Um, to be able to, we a visit them with a certain high enough dose gives you enough time to delve into what you really need to work on next. And then having enough time in between to work on them, um, is a balance that I think. It is a thing to work on and change over time. And I think you've done a great job with that.
Joseph Cornett: Well,
Uri Schneider: I owe you the big things because it was in, in the work that we did that helped me further refine this framework, the transcending framework, um, the four parts, uh, I was curious if something stands out to you, if that was particularly either a watershed moment or. Uh, something that you keep turning back to.
Uri Schneider: I know we had a shared Google doc. We would keep, but then we've sharpened it and you've created your own, um, kind of journal of sorts. So is there something that you turn back to and looking back really stands out as significant or
Joseph Cornett: valuable to you? The reframing to me that was most important and, um, helpful was.
Joseph Cornett: Not focusing on minimizing the disfluency, but on maximizing the clean-ness of it. I'm not trying to prevent the blocks or the repetitions, but focusing on what are. The things that you have learned to do to cope with them over years. And in my case, the 20 years now that are not an inherent part of it, but are a distraction.
Joseph Cornett: And learning new ways to, uh, new mechanisms in the moment to make them clean and to maximize the engagement that you can have a with the, listener So rather than scrunching and turning in and trying to push it out uh, letting the. The pressure drop you ease back in to it.
Joseph Cornett: And that reframing of what my goal is, is a much more, achievable goal. And I have already begun to use that framework when I interact with the parents of sick kids. Um, our goal is not, or your goal as a parent cannot be
Joseph Cornett: to take away all their symptoms if they have this chronic thing and that's, and that's our job and we won't always be able to, but what you are uniquely able to do as a parent and for you, my speech, me just being by myself. Is to maximize the quality of life that they have around it to maximize the resiliency that they have so that they feel good about who they are.
Joseph Cornett: And that it's a clean thing in terms of, um, they learn how to grow into being a person that does what they want to do when they want to do it, how they want to do it. And that is inclusive of the extra struggles that they have, but let's them be who they want to be.
Uri Schneider: I think it's incredibly profound and fortuitous that immediately after we finished recording this episode, I'm going to be interviewing Dr.
Uri Schneider: Chris Constantino. And he's the one who originated that concept that I shared with you that like you were quite fond of that. Go is much more about spontaneity and either recovering or re shifting towards that in the event that you have a stutter at the age of 20, the attempt to eradicate it could become its own struggle and its own tension.
Uri Schneider: And kind of, as you just said, in, in, in a broader stroke, you know, if someone's dealing with a chronic condition that has some chronicity. Uh, the eradication of it
Joseph Cornett: could maybe only possible
Uri Schneider: may not be possible. So maybe an effort in futility, uh, and it also can render a loss of opportunity. Yes. In all of the good and all of the great things that can happen, not withstanding the presence of it, or even because of the presence of it.
Uri Schneider: Um, but recognizing the nature of what it is we're living. So important and shifting into what we really want and shifting into thinking what's really possible. And the irony is that often people think, well, if I talk like this, I could never be a doctor, but talk like this. I can never go overseas and have these.
Uri Schneider: If I talked like this, I could never nail an interview. If I talk like this, I could never run the med school, uh, performance. Right. And, um, and here you're living proof of all those things are possible. If you'd let yourself give it a shot. If you take a chance, um, on the other hand, you could just sit in the corner and say, well, I'm not going to do any of those things till I eliminate the interruptions in my speech and try not to speak like Obama.
Uri Schneider: Um, so as we come to, uh, the last little juncture here, what would you say are some things you're doing today? I listed a few. And in broad strokes, but what are some of the small things, whether it's saying hello to the person at the door, or whether it's doing this podcast, what are some things you're doing today?
Uri Schneider: I'm thinking about the interviews, Joseph, on a personal note, it's so amazing. We're catching you in the midst of the height of your interviews and you're not shaking in your boots nonstop to the point that you're dysfunctional. And as he said to me, before we started recording, As you do that, they do start to get easier.
Uri Schneider: Like 14th interview doesn't have the same jitters as the first one, but what are some things you're doing today that have kind of become possible for you that maybe weren't as easy or even entertained as possible? Uh, just a matter of months or
Uri Schneider: years ago.
Joseph Cornett: I would begin by saying to anyone who is struggling with this as well. Uh, that it's one more step at a time and they can be a big step to them. It can be a small step, but I, I did not go from, uh, uh, not. Wanting to read a paragraph in class and, and asking to be skipped, to like directing a large, uh, musical performance, um, and being in a med med school, it was slow and gradual, and it was also putting myself in places where I had to rise to meet the occasion.
Joseph Cornett: I think that's one approach that has been, um, helpful is. Uh, to take the plunge and then learn how to cope and manage it and being open about whatever difficulties you're having has been a real, uh, savor as you are engaged in these new challenges. So I was saying to my mentors as I was in the hospital for the first time
Joseph Cornett: here's what I'm struggling, with. Here's what I'm working on. And I want you to be aware of this and to let me know what I can do better. Um, what is distracting and what's not. And so what I'm working on right now, One is I, I am very, uh, consumed by the interview process, but one thing that I'm still actively working on, and it almost sounds kind of silly, but in a group, a conversation when there is a flow and it is humming along, and I have a thing that I want to interject, but I have this feeling like I will.
Joseph Cornett: I have an intense stammer and that, that would break the flow. My instinct is to just let it pass now. What, there's a pause. I would jump jumped in, be more if I don't have that feeling I would. And I still sometimes do, but there are a lot of times where I don't and continuing to push myself to do more of that, um, is one just day to day, everyday thing that.
Joseph Cornett: Um, it's all these big sounding things that I'm doing, these smaller things I'm still having to work on.
Uri Schneider: What was the most surprising thing when you look back? I know that when we were preparing for. This next chapter of these interviews and your program had the right, their recommendation, and you're looking over all your reviews and you had all kinds of placements and all different areas of medicine.
Uri Schneider: What was something that was kind of surprising, even looking back, you knew that you'd performed well. You knew you had great reviews, but as we look more carefully, And hopefully you'll release these in your presidential library or whatever, but these reviews were striking in the manner of where stuttering kind of showed up or didn't show up in those reviews.
Uri Schneider: Would you like to share on that? Because I think that's quite surprising and profound for people to know.
Uri Schneider: So in the vast majority of my interviews, it was not mentioned at all, not one bit. And it is,
Uri Schneider: and that's not to say you didn't stutter. It's not to say you didn't stutter in those situations that are quite nicely.
Uri Schneider: Yeah.
Joseph Cornett: Yes. And I always liked the way that you phrased that. Um, and then there were a few, uh,
Joseph Cornett: the comments made in my evaluations of, um, and one was actually sick, quite nicely. Um, he has this challenge that in many settings where that would traditionally be, be a hurdle, um, in this field. And he has learned to manage it with a clear grace and poise. And so that does come up. But those were usually with people who I had worked with for a shorter amount of time.
Joseph Cornett: And so it may have been a way that they were saying that to me, through my evals, those who might have worked with. For longer, they voiced it to me. And so it was just a non-issue by that point and with all of the things that I've worked through in my own head about my self image and how I view this as a part of my
Joseph Cornett: self image was still striking to me how little it was was mentioned. And when I went back to try and find some places, in my evals where they had been mentioned. I had imagined that they had been said a whole lot more after I had already read them. And that was because I was imbuing it, um, in the evals.
Joseph Cornett: Yeah, it was on my mind as, as I was reading them. And so I think I had imagined that they had mentioned that too, but they hadn't
Uri Schneider: so amazing for such a person of great intelligence and thoughtfulness. We are all. We all have these blind spots and we're all very susceptible to seeing things through the lens.
Uri Schneider: That seems to be the protective mechanism that working for us till then. So there was this feeling that you needed to be on the lookout and you'd perceive that there were all these comments and then you read them. And it was actually like extremely thoughtful and very poised and communication with patients and colleagues.
Uri Schneider: It was like, mind-blowing.
Joseph Cornett: APR focused on the outcome. And it's not the a means of getting there, which was, which is what you've been saying this whole time. And it's been nice for me to, um, that's what I have in a, um, an approach to my life in general, but you're right. It was a blind spot that I think for 25 years,
Uri Schneider: And I think it's incredibly humanizing, as well, as I said to you, the first time we met, I said, look, you, you shared with me your resume just to kind of get your background.
Uri Schneider: And even as I introduce you, I'm sure a lot of people are, are, are quite impressed. And I said, you know, in some ways having a stutter kind of humanizes you cause otherwise you'd be a bit. The supernatural. Um, and it makes you, it makes you endearing. It makes you charming. It makes you approachable. It gives you charisma and the way you carry yourself with it, it, it, it's another facet it's, it's intriguing.
Uri Schneider: It's interesting. And, um, one of the things that you shared that I wrote down over the course of the conversations we've been having. You said, um, I think my patients recognize I really want to be here more than the average doctor, because it would be a lot easier for me to do something that didn't require this FaceTime and talk time.
Uri Schneider: And so it it's on, it's on display. There really must want to be here because I've had to choose again and again to be here and not to choose.
Joseph Cornett: Yeah. Yeah, parents who made that comment twice, even within one week from two different parents that I clearly really want to be here and that they felt that they could learn from that.
Joseph Cornett: And that kind of generous and humble compliment has really stuck with me. Um, so I
Uri Schneider: wanted to just cut. I wanted to cut. With the fact that you shared the, the anticipation that you have for going into a new placement or a new rotation or a new interview, like, oh, um, you know, what are they going to say?
Uri Schneider: What are they going to think? How am I going to perform? Because the demands here are greater than what I've had before the stakes are higher. So there's a part of that. That's just like part of going into a new stage, new chapter, a new interview it's normal, and as much successes you've had it doesn't erase the.
Uri Schneider: At a certain dose of that is, is normal. It's human. And at the same time, it does help to look back at your track record any of us and see that we've endured. We persevered, we've even thrived through situations that did shake us in our boots. You know? Um, what would be one takeaway as we just kind of wrap up one, thought that you would wish for the world or wish for people who.
Uri Schneider: Are living with this or have young people that they're raising or people that they care for, who stutter, um, you know, that nine-year-old kid that 12 year old, 15 year old, Joseph, what would you wish you could share with him or share with the people in his world?
Joseph Cornett: I would share, uh, just, uh, one thing, what I had, recently said that the goal is not to not dimmer. The goal is not to. Make you someone who has no, uh, liabilities or, uh, uh, challenges, one that's impossible. Um, uh, D depending on what the challenge is, and two, that can be what makes us richer and.
Joseph Cornett: Eventually, if you, um, are fortunate to have people around you and resources or, uh, the temperament to, um, able to cope with these things, the, the end, the end goal is for you to be who you want to be when you want to be how you want to be. And to. You can find ways often to not just men, men, men minimize the liability, the other thing, but to maximize the asset of it.
Joseph Cornett: And for many young, the liabilities that may just be making it a thing that others can relate to and that you can be open about. The change you want to see in the world to empower others, to do the same and to be able to live in their own skin, that kind of a sub sub sublimation and of taking the various challenges I've had in my life and making, making them into ways that I can.
Joseph Cornett: People wrestle with theirs and be okay with having to wrestle with theirs. I have been so moved by people who might have looked up to who has been open about their frailty and their failures and their challenges. And that has helped me think, wait, I can do these things too. My, my moment hasn't passed.
Joseph Cornett: Uh, No, I did not ride my first young mum, uh, symphony at the age of seven, like, uh, Mozart, but, uh, Samuel L. Jackson became a director. Uh, you know, you know, I'm in what you may be the back half of his life. And people like that have always been more inspiring to me. And I hope that and finding ways to be that for others as I progress in my own life.
Joseph Cornett: I can find ways to, and have, uh, found some ways to value myself for the challenges and the shortcomings and the liabilities that make me who I am as a person
Uri Schneider: stunning. Well, I'm sure that at this point, it's evident to all, uh, why I'm so. Fortunate and pleased that you took the time to have this conversation.
Uri Schneider: You had, uh, your wisdom, your words are absolutely precious, worth sharing. And I'm honored that this will be your first podcast appearance of many, hopefully for another episode here, but certainly looking forward to all the wonderful things that are going to come forth and the exciting time to see which doors are opened for you and which doors you choose to walk through in this next chapter.
Uri Schneider: Medical training and the impact you're going to make, uh, and where you choose to do it, you know, wherever it is, be very fortunate to have you. And we're fortunate to know you and share this time. So thank you.
Joseph Cornett: That's really a kind of, of user and we'll be in no small part due to your health.
Uri Schneider: Thank you very much.
Uri Schneider: Well, thank you for this. And without further ado will let you go on to preparing for the rest of your.
Joseph Cornett: Alright, have a good day. Y'all
Uri Schneider: thanks. Y'all.