#61 Stutterer Interrupted with Nina G
“So I would want people to listen to what I’m saying, not how I’m saying it”
Listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts or your favorite podcast platform. You can also watch the interview on YouTube.
BIO:
Nina G is a comedian, professional speaker and author of Stutterer Interrupted: The Comedian Who Almost Didn’t Happen and Once Upon An Accommodation: A Book About Learning Disabilities. She has been featured in/on everything from NPR's 51%, BBC's Ouch, Psychology Today, Tedx, multiple day time talk shows, Howard (Stern) 100 News and even the Stuttering John Podcast.
Nina shares her wit and wisdom with corporations, colleges, libraries, conferences, and community events. Her no nonsense approach to disability awareness and acceptance helps to bring institutions, communities and individuals to deepen their understanding of the disability and bring practical approaches to making a more inclusive society. Nina is currently working on her third book on the history of stand up comedy in the San Francisco Bay Area.
EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS
0:00-02:02 -Opening Remarks
02:02-04:05 -Introducing Nina G
04:04-12:34 - Dyslexia Detour: Personal Experiences and Practical Tips
12:34-14:24 -Nina's Journey
14:24-19:06 -Nina on Facing Adversity
19:06-22:22 -How Nina wishes people would (and would NOT) react when she stutters
22:22-29:42 -Nuance in comedy: who says what and what really matters
29:42-40:43 -Personal Reflections on Imposter Syndrome
40:43-45:12 -The role of SLPs outside the clinic
45:12-55:37 -Nina's Book "Stutterer Interrupted: The Comedian Who Almost Didn’t Happen"
55:37-57:50 -Nina's Words of Wisdom
57:50-59:54 -Closing Remarks
RESOURCE LIST
Get Pocket (hold anything you want to read online in one place)
Voice Dream (text-to-speech reader)
MORE QUOTES
“I just wanna encourage everybody to do your thing because when you do your thing, you don't worry about what other people are looking at and thinking of you. If you just know you're in your flow, you're doing what you're here to do. You're here to do what people do and you push against all those artificial plastic voices. Not only are you going to be happier, you might even do something preposterous.” Uri Schneider
“When you stutter, you are socialized not to take up space, no matter what your gender is and how much like guilt that I had. I feel guilty about having to put people through my speech and through what I was going to say. So I would minimize myself. And through that, I realized how much I internalize that not only in my speech, but just in who I was and holding back in multiple ways.” - Nina G
TRANSCRIPTION:
Uri Schneider: Well, welcome back for another amazing episode of transcending stuttering. My name is Uri Schneider and it's an honor and a privilege. I'm not that funny, but if my career goes down, I have been told that I have an ability to make people laugh. And I find that in the line of work I do, which is a cross between lighting humans on fire, not in a physical and a concrete way, but from the inside lighting their lights on fire educating people to know and understand more about things that are confusing and enigmatic, helping people champion each other, and also taking things that can sometimes be really heavy and bringing some light.
Uri Schneider: And again, I say that as a double entendre with all that being said, so I've been told, like sometimes I can say some things that are, half funny, but I've never been on a stage with a comedian, so I'm a little nervous this morning to be the opening act for our headliner, who is the one and only Nina G.
Uri Schneider: And I'm going to give Nina the intro that she sent me and then riff on that just a little bit and jump right in. But you're in the presence of greatness. This is an east coast, west coast collab. I'll tell you a little bit about, she's out in Oakland, California, and it's a big treat to have her this morning.
Uri Schneider: She is a comedian, she's a professional speaker. She's also the author of Stutterer Interrupted: The Comedian Who Almost Didn't Happen. And Once Upon an Accommodation: A Book About Learning Disabilities.And I'll just say, it's super exciting to say that because I remember the conference for Nina told me my book is coming out.
Uri Schneider: I'm so excited. I said, sign me up. So really cool to say here she is, there's a product placement and someone made a funny comment, which I don't want to repeat for the risk of getting political, but very funny that in the image headshot that you sent me, it's upside down and you could think of someone else who held a book for placement in a funny upside down upside down manner.
Introducing Nina G
Uri Schneider: But there she is Nina G and she's been featured in and on. Everything from NPR's 51%. BBC's Ouch psychology Today, Tech Ted X, multiple daytime talk shows. I'll even say I'm following Howard Stern. I didn't know that, but she's been on the Howard Stern Show and even on a Stuttering John podcast, by the way, if Stuttering John is listening, I have private messaged him and invited him on for an episode,
Uri Schneider: I'm waiting for an answer, happy to have him any time shares her Witten wisdom with corporations, with colleges, libraries, and conferences and community events. Her no-nonsense approach to disability awareness and acceptance helps to bring institutions, communities, and individuals to deepen their understanding of the disability and bring practical approaches to making a more inclusive society.
Uri Schneider: Is there anything more important than that? Nina is currently working on her third book on the history of standup in the San Francisco bay area. And I would just add that she missed on her bio, that she was also part of the inauguration ceremonies for our president Joe Biden. Again, no politics.
Uri Schneider: He's the president of the United States and he's a person who stutters and Nina was one of the people with my other buddy Braden Harrington to be on the lineup. So it's a big honor that I pass the torch to our headline act. Since I didn't get too many laughs on that one share comment, post your questions.
Uri Schneider: This is going to be a great one. Fasten your seatbelts wherever you are. The one and only Nina G!
Nina G: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And I do have to make one little correction in the intro. It's the Howard Stern 100 News. So I was never on the Howard Stern Show. A lot of times people think that like when they don't see me, they think that I was the girl in the bikini who sold hot dogs on this side of the road, because her name was also Nina.
Nina G: And so no, it's just Howard Stern, 100 News, which I was totally happy with, anyway.
Detour about Shared Dyslexia: Experiences and Tools that can Help
Uri Schneider: Totally. Well, here's a little disclosure. I'm borderline dyslexic. So as I was reading that line, the way it appeared on the page, here we are on disability awareness and openness. It was only late in high school that I realized it was taking me a heck of a long time to get through that textbook.
Uri Schneider: And at the end, I remembered all the pictures, but I couldn't remember a word I read. So I turned to my friend, Stevie, who's a buddy of mine till today. He's a real estate attorney. He reads contracts all the time. I don't, I read people all the time. And back in high school, I said, Hey, Steve, how long did it take you to read that page?
Uri Schneider: And that science textbook? And he's got a minute. I'm like, there's something up because it's taken me like two or three minutes. And by the time I get to the end, I can't remember the thing I read before. So full disclosure when I was reading it, it was narrow font. If you are borderline dyslexic or full on dyslexic, like me have trouble reading.
Uri Schneider: Larger font, wider margins, very helpful, fewer words in front of your face. It can be helpful or for others having more in front of your face, but adapt in whatever way you need. But I thank you for that correction. I certainly wouldn't have wanted anyone to think you were that person. You're Nina, this person,
Nina G: I'm this person.
Nina G: Yes. And also I have Dyslexia too, which is why I read a lot of stuff on my phone. You can make it read out loud, which like doesn't work for these kinds of situations, because I also have dyslexia and I mess up on intros, constantly so yeah, it was actually, this entire thing was scripted. Wasn't it?
Uri Schneider: Because we want it to highlight Imperfection. We wanted to highlight that we all make mistakes. We want it to also make a little separate side gig about Dyslexia, which will be another episode. And my first episode in 2021, I talked to John Gomez also from the west coast. Maybe there's something in the water.
Uri Schneider: He and I talked about being creatives and attention regulation, otherwise known as ADHD. But I would just say to you, Nina, maybe we could just digress because that's what we do. Being a person with some reading difficulty where reading, doesn't come as easy to us as it might to others. What are some of those practical hacks that you might offer?
Uri Schneider: Young adults, adults, professionals, or high schoolers or junior high schoolers or kids in school?
Nina G: I think number one, make enough money to have somebody read your stuff because that, for me, and also a lot of men have wives, not all of them, but some men have wives. A lot of times wives fall into that role.
Nina G: And sometimes the gender roles don't always play out that way, for women. So I hire people to edit my stuff. And so for me, that is one of the biggest accommodations. And for like my book that I'm writing, like I do the first draft and then I do the second draft and then someone looks at it every single time just to clean it up as I go.
Nina G: So that's one. And then also I have on my phone, it's an app called Read To Go, and it works with bookshare.org and bookshare.org is like a depository of books that you can download and read for free. Once you're a member you have to join for 65 bucks. And then you renew every year for 45. I probably have that totally wrong because I'm Dyslexic.
Nina G: I don't remember the price, but. You can download as many books as you want to and read them on your phone. And for me, I read it like 300 words a minute on my phone, without that I read at 110 words a minute. So I don't fall asleep when I read I don't have to read it over and over again. So there's lots of really great things.
Nina G: Also, there is an app called Voice Dream that you can download PDFs and read those. And that's super cool because you can put in work documents and stuff like that.
Uri Schneider: I'll share. I'll share it. I just, I'm going to go have some new subscriptions to pay. Cause that's the only difference is you said you gotta be rich enough to be able to pay for all these apps and all these assistants and all these editors.
Nina G: I'm going to share a couple of free ones because I'm not in that position that you're in Nina because I haven't written my first book for my second book. Also rich enough in the bay area means that you have rent control. That's like rich, it's a very, it's like rich enough, meaning that you can pay your friends 15 bucks an hour to do the editing.
Nina G: So like rich is bay area talk of I'm not starving and I have a little bit of extra. So that's what I meant by that.
Uri Schneider: Totally. Well, listen, if you're not rich enough and you don't have rent stabilized situation, you're definitely in trouble, but we're going to keep it clean. So on the free side of things, I would just share Nina's tips and only add to them.
Uri Schneider: Number one, 'most of your phones, if writing is difficult, spelling's difficult. Our phones and our computers I use Android certainly is also true on apple, on iOS and on laptops. Dictation is an incredible thing. So obviously if you have a speech difference that makes that difficult. There are many people working on that we're involved in that as well, helping Siri and helping Google with the ability to listen, to spoken word that might have variations that might include people that have speech differences, but overall leveraging dictation for those that can be an incredible tool.
Uri Schneider: Not only to control your computer, I don't do that, but I do find it helpful to say things over and it just transcribes the whole thing. It just says the whole thing types out for you. You can put in periods and things like that. It's also a safe way to send messages when you're on the move. I would double down on what Nina said.
Uri Schneider: Another app that I like is Pocket is a free app. You can save any website and instead of reading it built into the app, it'll read. Any article for you. So it's a way to collect articles and then you can choose to read them later or listen to them, read to you, and it's free. You'll notice a theme and everything I'm sharing free.
Uri Schneider: And last but not least, I just want to share one professional nugget for people who think about Dyslexia. Often people think of, oh, the letters are moving. Things are moving all over the face and it's not always like that. There are different types of Dyslexia. Some people have that sort of thing where it's a visual processing thing where their eyes do not send the signal to the brain.
Uri Schneider: And the signal does not get processed in a way that everything is clear and everything is static. And that's like the classic one. Some people have that difficulty, and sometimes there are ways to work with that. And specifically some things include visual eye training and things like that.
Uri Schneider: There are other types of people who have Dyslexia, which I fit into where the letters are all standing still. But my mind, for some reason, when I'm reading the language side of the processing, so my eyes work, I get the signal, I get the image, but the way my brain processes, that language is very different than when I'm listening.
Uri Schneider: And when I'm listening, I'm operating it, good enough. And when I'm reading, it's a lot less than that, or it's a lot more effortful. So I think being savvy about understanding the, what you're dealing with is very important. You're speaking from California. Again, politics aside, your governor, right?
Uri Schneider: Gavin Newsome is a person with Dyslexia brand. There are so many examples of people who have made it and made it big. And if you want to learn more understood.org is my favorite site and even have simulators. If you want to see what it's like to have these different disabilities. And what's beautiful about that site, just again, Because of our headliner, it goes through the age ranges.
Uri Schneider: So you can learn about not only young children and school aged children, but high schoolers, college aged students and adults living with learning differences, and there's so much there. So I highly recommend understood.org and we're just getting started
Nina G: Well and understood.org is an amazing site.
Nina G: They have so much, and they have role models on there too. So that it's so important that we see ourselves when we're kids, as the adults that we may grow into. So I think that's an important thing, too.
Uri Schneider: Fabulous. So we got the bio messed up, but it was mostly accurate. And you also left off, I think, really special that you were part of the inauguration process ceremony online.
Uri Schneider: Of course, hopefully soon we'll be dancing in the white house together.
Nina's Journey
Uri Schneider: But what I always start off with is what would you like people to know that maybe isn't in the bio, but it's meaningful to you.
Nina G: Let's see, I see. I think what I probably want people to know is that I've been doing comedy now for 11 years. And that was always my dream to be a comic, like I've loved comedy longer than I've stuttered. Because I started to stutter when I was seven or eight and I found comedy even before that.
Nina G: And so it's something that I've just always loved and wanted to be a comic when I was in middle school, high school. And then the dream died because I was like, I'm 17. I don't see anybody on TV in 1990. Who's stutters other than the stuttering, John, but he wasn't doing stand-up at the time. And so I was like, yeah, I can do that.
Nina G: And so dream died, picked it up. 20 years after that or whatever the math is and have been doing it ever since. And a big part of why I started was my experience at a stuttering conference. And just having yourself reflected back, just like I said earlier was still important for me in my development.
Nina G: And that was the thing that helped me to get onstage and I've been doing it ever since.
Uri Schneider: I recently listened to a podcast with Tim Ferris interviewing Jerry Seinfeld about his craft and his longevity, right? Like it's pretty unheard of how many people do, comedians that do what they do at a, such a high level for years.
Uri Schneider: Sadly, that's not the trajectory of many. Great funny people. What would you say,
Nina on Facing Adversity
Uri Schneider: I'm sure you faced the average, challenges of a comedian, which is not an easy path to go, and then I'm sure there were some extra ones you can maybe shed some light on some of the unique things as a woman, as a Person Who Stutters as a person with other learning differences.
Uri Schneider: And what were some of the things you leveraged that helped you keep yourself strong, keep your head on, keep your heart on, keep the passion alive and go through the ups and downs that are part of that process.
Nina G: I think the first thing is that I love it and I don't think people should get into this unless they absolutely love it, because you like, if you just want to get famous, there's other ways to get famous.
Nina G: This is a craft and I feel that you should work on your craft constantly. And I think for me as a Person who Stutters and who has Dyslexia, because remember that I have to, memorize the joke. And then I have to deliver the joke and the memorization of it, a lot of times when you have a learning disability, there's that part.
Nina G: And so a lot of times I am dis- I don't want to say disfluent, it's the other word. And this is part of my LD. It's I am I'm trying to get out the sentence like I am now. And then the stuttering is on top of that. So there's like multiple processes going on. And when I write a joke or when I write new material, I don't think oh, am I going to stutter on this word?
Nina G: There's one phrase that I say I have one new joke that I say "akimbo" like "akimbo" part that's such a great word. I'm gonna stutter through that, but I want to use that word. And so I don't necessarily find that out until I get on stage. So I think what I am different from a lot of my peers who have been in it for 11 years is I go to a lot of open mics because I need to see how the joke's going to come out of my mouth.
Nina G: And I, then I need to work on timing on top of that. And I think one thing about me, is, I don't have a lot of throwaway lines because I'm like, if it doesn't work, I'm not going to keep it. And I think there's also that economic part of us, who stutter who are like, okay, what I say can sometimes be a challenge.
Nina G: So I'm going to make sure that it's really important. It's really important. And in this case, it's I'm going to make sure that this really works which I just need to have a few throwaway lines. And that's okay. I think there's that, that I'm harder on myself that everything has to be really funny.
Nina G: And I don't give myself the flexibility that I think some comics do. So that's just a couple things. And then also I have people in the audience who. I live in the bay area, near Berkeley people like to virtues signal with their applause and the reaction. So sometimes I get people giving me pity moans when I'm doing my stuttering stuff, which like, they think they're being allies.
Nina G: You're not being an ally if you pity moan me! And if you don't give me that sympathy throughout the day and only onstage that's messed up. So don't do that.
Uri Schneider: And you just, can you just demonstrate both visually and for those that are listening only, what are you talking about? The pity moan, I'd love to see the pity moan,, so I'm up there.
Uri Schneider: I'm just going to put it on. This is a faux stutter, but the energy could be the audience. I'll be the pretend comedian headlining. Wow. So it's great to be here. I'm gonna, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be taking some extra time today because I stutter.
Nina G: Aweee, aweee. And they all look at their friends and my joke on it is I love sympathy,
Nina G: just like all of you. I don't know why it has to be in the middle of my act because it's not like when I go to Starbucks and I order my drink and the barista says is that Nina lit is that Nina with five N's? Where's my pity moan then, because that's the whole thing is now's not the time. And if you really want to do something and put something into action, cool pity moan me.
Nina G: But if you're not, let's try to listen to what I'm saying in my punchlines and enjoy this and laugh.
How Nina Wishes People Would (and would NOT) React When she Stutters
Uri Schneider: What would you appreciate? What's the, either, what have you seen that you appreciate, or what would you wish for from that audience member when you get into it?
Nina G: If somebody is really sincere about it, that's cool.
Nina G: I think sometimes what they do, what I like is when I do that joke, then someone will pity moan me when I make a joke, like a sexual joke or something. And I won't do that joke now. Cause you told me not to, but
Uri Schneider: yeah, I just want to say, if you think Nina is funny, I've been told there's a whole nother routine that she can do.
Uri Schneider: So you're just getting a piece of it. But she did agree that this was going to be rated G it's only seven in the morning that she came on, in Pacific time, not everybody is wired like Nina G., And we know that the audience comes in all stripes and sizes and ages, and we wanted this to be family friendly, but again, Nina can do that and she can also do highly entertaining belly laughing stuff.
Uri Schneider: So I've been told.
Nina G: Yes. Yes. And that's that's the thing is that I think what I love about comedy and what people like Paul Mooney, who just passed away who was an African-American comic, who wrote for Richard Pryor, there's people like him who can educate on social issues while also making people laugh.
Nina G: And that is, I think, a tool of comedy that can be used in that way. So I would want people to listen to what I'm saying, not how I'm saying it also to not over appropriate my experiences. Like when I start out a joke and the premise is something bad and then I bring it to something funny.
Nina G: It's okay to go on that journey. And, if you leave there and want to be a stuttering activist, I'm cool with that. That is the ultimate goal, but that's, pretty rare. So
Uri Schneider: Very cool. Can you tell us that? I think that's really delicate, right? I think comedians get certain license. Like for example, recently Elon Musk was on Saturday night live and it was a big deal for a lot of reasons.
Uri Schneider: And it was interesting the way that everything went down, but one of the big things, and again, like him. Love him, hate him. We're going to put that aside for a moment. He said on national television, he took ownership that some of his quirks are related to the fact that he has what he called "Asperger's". And that was a big thing to say that on that stage, there were other parts of the routine and of the show that I thought were a little bit off, including, did you catch the piece that I posted about? Did I stutter? There was a skit that he was not even in. Where the comedians had written in this piece, did I stutter?
Uri Schneider: It was one of the other skits in that evening show. So I thought it was interesting that on the one hand here we are putting Asperger's on Saturday Night Live, which is good. Right? It's a wonderful thing to take away that stigma and put it out there. And as you said, growing up as a girl aspiring to be on the big stage, there were no comedians who stuttered that you saw.
Uri Schneider: So representation was sorely lacking. And on the other hand, in the same show, the use of a certain phrase, which is very I don't know, even the right word. I'm gonna let you talk about that.
Nuances in Comedy: Who Can Say What?
Uri Schneider: But I just want to highlight that as a sensitive point, where comedians get licensed to say things you wouldn't say to your boss, right?
Uri Schneider: And so you can say things that are edgy that are even provocative. Right. Where does that line get crossed? So let's say there's another comedian gets on stage tells the same joke you told, but you could tell it because you're a woman who stutters and if he said it, it will be considered chauvinistic, misogynistic, and anti, anti whatever the other words would be.
Uri Schneider: I'm really interested in that nuance and guidelines on that from your point of view,
Nina G: And I think part of it is what I've learned from this is if there's some love behind it, it's okay to say. And for example, I've had people introduce me and they don't know me and I do my act and then they'd come back with some super hacky stuttering joke.
Nina G: And there's a few that are like the go-tos there and that can we get to those later? Can we get to those? I want to hear those later.
Nina G: I, it I'd have to, it would have to be after this.
Uri Schneider: That's the other, it's the other part of the show.
Uri Schneider: Got it.
Nina G: But then I have, sometimes people who, do it in a very affectionate way. And I've had some comics who afterwards will just do something like Na-Na-Na-Nina like in the chia pet song. And I know that it's teasing me in a way that is equal and, and so there's that also, I have a friend who when I work with him and we work a lot under the Comedians With Disabilities Act and I do that with me and Dave and Michael Beers among others.
Nina G: And me and Dave will say, after my set, he'll say, what can I say about nit Nina that wouldn't take her a little longer to say? And it's funny, it's good. It's unique. And also we have a relationship where he can do that. And and I think that is the thing is what is the relationship? And also have you had that talk because I've had that talk with him and I've had the talk with others, like this is okay, this is not, I also think that it's, if I tease you, you can tease me back.
Nina G: And I have a chapter in the book about when I performed with Dave Chappelle, because he was hosting an open mic that I was lucky enough to be on. And Dave Chappelle is like major influence, like just what he's done around race issues I wanted to do around,
Nina G: disability issues. So he's a great inspiration for me. And so I was very honored to perform with him. And I made fun of him a little bit before he got back on stage. Because I knew it was going to come. And he had previously, I hadn't seen him live and he made fun of me in the audience. So I responded to that, which was like a year after or two years after.
Nina G: So he had no idea. And then I was like, something like, screw you Dave. But I said some other word for making fun of me. And then he came back on stage and he made fun of me. And so it was a peer to peer thing. And so I think that is one of those things that is so important that. We have some agency in this.
Nina G: Because I think a lot of times when a disability is talked about, especially in the media, we lack that agency. And a lot of times, like there's a saying in the disability community, which is "nothing about us, without us". And we need to be both the writers and the actors and the producers and everything so that our voices can be heard in an unfiltered way.
Nina G: And that's why it's so exciting to be doing comedy now, because you can have that in, in, in an unfiltered way because of YouTube, because of situations like this. It's just a great time to be around for all this
Uri Schneider: Incredible. Well, before we got on we discussed how all the bullet points and all the talking points we wanted to get to.
Uri Schneider: And then we said, let's just roll with it. But I did pull up one of the bullets points that you raised just yesterday on social. And I wanted to go there. Because I think it's something that everybody can really relate to in one way or another. And I also just want to riff off and amplify what you said, what was the line in the community?
Uri Schneider: You can say
Nina G: Nothing about us without us.
Uri Schneider: Nothing about us without us. That was a quick blank out there. So nothing without nothing about us without us. And I think I just want to proudly and strongly state that the whole Transcending Stuttering project. Okay. Whether it's the training for SLPs, whether it's the experiences for people who stutter is all about that.
Uri Schneider: And so the input and the learning is coming from people who identify as professionals. People who identify as People Who Stutter, learning and listening to each other. And then you have the select few who embody both and they get it from both sides and they really provide tremendous perspective and insight.
Uri Schneider: And when we can get out of our own little heads and we can see ourselves have that ability to have self observation, and then also the safety of getting feedback from others. I think comedians are very courageous people. So people think comedians are a bunch of quacks and a bunch of flakes, but like how many of us would get up in front of a stage in front of an audience?
Uri Schneider: And as Seinfeld says it, like you have a live feedback loop, there's no delay there and there's no waiting for the poll to come in. He also has a great joke from the original Seinfeld episode. And I always butcher it. You want to do it better than me? About the fierce people with public speaking.
Uri Schneider: Do you deliver this one? Well, if you want me to
Nina G: I forget what it is.
Uri Schneider: Okay. That must've been a moment it's only seven in the morning. Yeah, for sure. No, this one is awesome, but I'm basically saying, I'm not confident in my delivery here, especially in the presence of Nina G,but I'm going to give it a go.
Uri Schneider: I'm going to be courageous. Here we go. He says, more than the fear of Heights, more than arachnephobia more than any other fear, human beings across the board have a fear of public speaking. It's greater than the fear of dying. So there's all kinds of fears out there. But public speaking is fear.
Uri Schneider: Number one, even though of the fear of death itself, which means if you find yourself at the funeral, most people would prefer to be in the casket than giving them the oh, the Eulogy there you go. So yeah, the fact that comedians get on the stage and do this all the time and the feedback is intense. It's not just public speaking.
Uri Schneider: It's like public speaking on speed is remarkable.
Nina and Uri Share Imposter Syndrome's Roll in their Lives
Uri Schneider: So all the more but it's something we can all relate to. I relate to it. Imposter syndrome. And I'll just read what you wrote and we can just reflect on that. Is that
Nina G: yes. Cool.
Uri Schneider: So you commented like maybe we could touch on this today. And I was like a hundred percent.
Uri Schneider: Here we go. Something I recently noticed about myself. This is Nina G's post Imposter Syndrome has just always been there from the time I was in disbelief that I got an, A minus in high school geometry to being in grad school. Comedy has been no different, perhaps even more intense because of my relationship to comedy.
Uri Schneider: I so badly want it to be a comedian, but taking 20 plus years to get on stage, there was always self doubt before I got on. I just learned to accept the thoughts that I would have. It would, that it would take awhile before I would, but I just had to accept my thoughts that I would have while waiting for my sets.
Uri Schneider: My brain would tell me you don't belong here. You're not a comedian. Luckily many lesser comedians had always reminded me otherwise. Other comedians recently, after 11 years of these thoughts coming to me, I've had a slight change in my thinking because of the pandemic, my thought has turned to, "I don't belong" to, "I'm lucky to be here".
Uri Schneider: Just that subtlety from I"I don't belong" to, "I'm lucky to be here" ever, so slight reframe, which has reminded me of the gratitude that I have for every audience and every stage, no matter the size or the man making obscene hand gestures in front, I'm really lucky to be here. And I'm Uri Schneider saying, I'm glad I'm not the man making obscene hand gestures.
Uri Schneider: Yeah. So
Nina G: happened last week. So there you go .
Uri Schneider: So what does that all mean? What does that all mean?
Nina G: I think there, there was just, and not to get all Michael Sugarman on you, but there are those,
Uri Schneider: Hold on. You can sprinkle Sugarman on me all day. I'm not sure we have to make excuses for not getting Michael Sugarman
Uri Schneider: I didn't know. That was a verb.
Nina G: Yeah. The see here in Oakland where it also started. Yes, it's a verb. So Michael always talks about the reframing and the cognitive in CBT, which I think is really important for both says psychology oriented therapist and speech oriented the therapist to understand that. And how do you think about your stuttering and or also as a clinician,
Nina G: how do you think about stuttering? I think is all important. And so for me, the automatic thought that I would get almost every time I went on stage was this self-doubt that I should not be there. That I'm not a real comic. What am I doing? And and it's just something that I was like, oh, I know that thought, I'm just going to let that go.
Nina G: But then something happened in this happened on from Friday night, I was hiding behind a food truck waiting to go on stage at a show because it's an outside show and we're doing shows in very strange places. And this is in downtown Oakland at the Gasser Gardens. Awesome show at the set up. And I'm there behind a food truck looking at the audience cause they're a kind of a tight audience.
Nina G: I was like, okay, I'll look at their faces. So I'm desensitized before I get on stage. And while I'm doing that and while the crowd is very cold, I was like, "I am so lucky that I get to be here!" And, it's a very slight reframe because it's still like external locus of control. Like it's still not like I deserve to be here because my material is so good.
Nina G: And my voice is so unique. It's not that maybe I'll get there one day or maybe not. But the fact that my automatic thought is I'm lucky to be here is such a it's a slight thing, but it's just a more positive way to look at that. I think for those of us who have Imposter Syndrome and, being in such a special-ed when I was in high school and then going into grad school eventually yeah, I knew Imposter Syndrome well, and being a Dyslexic, knowing that more of us are probably in prison than they are in doctoral programs.
Nina G: That's really scary. And also. There's all kinds of issues that come with that and Imposters Syndrome being part of that. So yeah, that's just a little bit of the reframe that I recently had.
Uri Schneider: Wow. There's so much. Two, two stories are coming up for me. First of all, I live with that Imposter Syndrome all the time.
Uri Schneider: So it's nice to have good company, especially a company like yours. And I would also like to share the following story. So it touches on bias. It touches on stigma. It touches on what you're talking about. It touches on, I think it ticks all the boxes, except that it's not very funny. It ends with tears and hugs and laughs which is a full day, in my opinion, when you've got those three things happening, I think to give you said that, but Basically a kid comes into the office African-American kiddo and parents said he has autism and he's not particularly verbal.
Uri Schneider: And they came in with his sister and it comes out as a big sister and incomes, a very Regal looking black woman. And she looks like she's the daughter of someone who was like a diplomat from one of the countries in Africa and behind her comes in a man who looks like he just came out of the NFL combine with long dreadlocks wearing distinctly different dress than her.
Uri Schneider: She was dressed to the nines. It was a Sunday morning in the office. We go to greet them at the door. So at that time there was a desk in the office and a chair here and chair there and chairs for everybody and a carpet area for kids to sit and play. And usually we'd be sitting with them at this time, the chair behind that.
Uri Schneider: Desk is clearly the chair of someone who works there. So it's me. And it's another therapist there. We welcome them in and this six foot five guy who's not dressed to the nines. He's dressed in like a t-shirt and sweat pants. And let's just say he was physically imposing. And I don't think it truly had anything to do with the fact that he was black.
Uri Schneider: I think it had a lot to do with the fact that he was physically imposing and he walks into the room and sits in what would be my chair. There are four chairs on one side of the table and there's one chair on that side and he makes himself comfortable in that chair. So the intimidation factor is really there.
Uri Schneider: I'm not feeling comfortable. My job is to make others feel comfortable in this space. And I'm feeling uncomfortable, which is unusual because I'm generally comfortable with people. And the whole story goes off in my head, right. Of like uncouth and unsophisticated and so on. And again, I don't think much of this had to do with the fact that he was black, but I'm also not going to take that off the table.
Uri Schneider: There were plenty of data points here, which were telling me this might not be. An easy situation and that the dynamics are telling me this guy's a bit confrontational or something. And the story goes on and I say to mama, what do you do? And she tells me, she's in politics. And I say to dad, what do you do?
Uri Schneider: And he says, oh, I do a freelance. And he has this like very unsophisticated articulation, shall we say? And then as they're talking about the child, I make sure to keep checking in with them. And I said, why are you here? I'll try to accelerate the story, but it's really good. They said, well, we've been around to a lot of neurologists and hospitals and they told us this and they told us that.
Uri Schneider: And we really think our kid has more to him. These doctors are telling us, they've tested him and they've done this. And they keep giving us the Riot Act. And all these acronyms of one of my favorites is ASDNOS autistic spectrum disorder, not otherwise specified. That's gotta be the dumbest thing to say I got it.
Uri Schneider: I know what it is. It's this not otherwise specified now. That's like probably the least helpful thing. You could help anybody demystify. So that might be a starting point to then unpack but left. So everyone has given them lectures and they said, we just feel there's more to him. And we heard you might take some time to help us discover that and bring that out or tell us we're out of our minds.
Uri Schneider: I says, I said, well, tell me a little bit more. And dad takes a turn. And this dad who I've described to you starts to unpack how he's a freelance writer. He's a ghost writer and he's also an active hands-on stay at home dad. And he's consistently engaging this child and his daughter in culturing them and providing them the values and the engagement and the intention and the enrichment.
Uri Schneider: And I'm like losing it. It's already amazing. And I said, what's your story? And he says to me, well, I grew up in the south and I grew up they thought I had a learning disability. And so I had an entire educational career. In a special-ed classroom with people far less able than me, but we were all bunched into this garden variety classroom of people with things ranging from children, with Down Syndrome, people with autism, people with reading difficulty, attentional, difficulty, language processing, difficulty.
Uri Schneider: And there I wasn't my whole life. I knew I didn't belong there. I knew I didn't belong there, but I've been put into this box and I want to make sure that my kid doesn't get put in that box. And so when he walked in the room, I wasn't wrong to pick up what I picked up. He was emoting this antagonistic attitude towards professionals who were telling him this kid is broken and this kid won't make it.
Uri Schneider: He knows what his kids got because he's loving them up to pieces. Well then mom tells me, oh wow, it's his birthday. So the man who walked in who at first intimidated me, or I let myself be intimidated by him, but hung in curious enough to listen. Open enough to leave space for the story to emerge made me cry.
Uri Schneider: Then we shared some laughs and then we shared a big hug and I said, happy birthday, you made my day. Hope you have a great day too. And so that's the story of this young man, but I just want it to, piggybacking off your story about that Imposter Syndrome for him to emerge from there and to change his identity and to feel like he belonged.
Uri Schneider: That's really hard, the strengthen that inner narrative. I love what you shared and I love how you reframe that. And I think the subtlety I'll just finish on this and pass to you. The subtlety is when you try to say it too strong, there's something inside you that won't hear it. Won't take it. So even though it's like a halfway line, what you said, it's so brilliant because the subtlety is something that you're ready to swallow and you're like, resistance doesn't get triggered.
Uri Schneider: So it's actually something you can flex. "I'm lucky to be here". I think that's beautiful.
The Necessary Role of SLPs Beyond the Clinic
Nina G: Well, and to highlight one of the things, what you said is that I really feel that therapists, whether they're in speech or psychology or any of the helping professions really need to look at advocacy and activism, because there was like, who was that dad to trust you?
Nina G: Like who the hell are you to be trusted when there is a system that has segregated kids of all colors and different the disabilities and how much we need to understand that history because speech and language and cognition, whatever it is. It's not just that it, there is a society of oppression that has gone into that and into our education around that and into the media.
Nina G: And I really encouraged Speech and Language Pathologists to do your work is not in the office. Your work is also outside the office and it's advocating at schools and using your privilege. And as a therapist, when that kids in school to say, ah, I call BS on this, but you say it in a professional way.
Nina G: And is your
Uri Schneider: or not, I just say that.
Nina G: Yes. Yes. That. Okay, good. And also to use that privilege, to help understand or to help educate people in online on social media, when someone puts up, oh, this is such an inspirational thing. Look, this kid's saying, he's saying, and then he was fluent and oh my God.
Nina G: I was like, ah, no, it's just a brain trick. This is not helpful. So to educate them, media, educate others. And to step out of that one role, because your role is to make life better for people that you work with. And that may mean that it surpasses just that clinical interaction.
Uri Schneider: I'm going to save all the things that just came to my mind in my heart.
Uri Schneider: For another live immediately following this, which will also be like a solo cast. So stay tuned for that. But I just want to say that was awesome. And just amplify that my hope and prayer is that yes, the greatest course I took was Sociology of Disability. It was such an eyeopening course for me to understand the societal shifts and attitudes and understanding, and the continuing studies that are evolving and emerging as to when did we even think of things as disability before the Industrial Revolution, if someone had a different ability, they made the shoes and they sold the pair of shoes, but then when things shifted to like hourly wages, you had to work as fast as the person next to you.
Uri Schneider: And you suddenly had to be measured by certain, objective metrics. And there's so much more, but I want to encourage everybody to dive into that. And I also want to allow all of us to hit the reset button on the relationship between those on every side of this. Right. So I think Nina said those of us on the professional side to understand and own.
Uri Schneider: The history of our profession, "speech correction" was what we were called at one point, there is a, there's a reason why there's that culture and there's that thinking it didn't come from nowhere for us, as well as the people we served. There's a reason there's a certain feeling of caution of wait a second.
Uri Schneider: I'm not sure I want to be corrected. And then on the other side as well, for people on the other end to realize, Hey, maybe there are some people that actually have a good heart and they also have a good head and they just happen to have professional credentials, which means they have accountability and they're waving the flag of the best of what the profession has to offer.
Uri Schneider: So I think if we can hit the reset button and be champions to create new possibilities of thinking and understanding and speaking up for each other and using our privilege on every side of that, it's not a one-sided thing. Everybody has a place to speak up and all of us are reminded that we are the other in some space.
Uri Schneider: So if we can all step up and realize where we hold that privilege and be a champion for the other and the other can do the same in return, the world's gonna be a beautiful place.
Nina G: Yep. Exactly.
Nina Discusses her Book "Stutterer Interrupted: The Comedian Who Almost Didn’t Happen"
Uri Schneider: Nina let's spotlight the book. What is one thing that you wanted to really shine through the book and message that you wanted readers in the world to get from you?
Uri Schneider: And then maybe the second point would be as any artist. Sometimes the thing you thought was going to be the grand slam, something else was found to be very resonant. It was a surprise to you that something that you thought was like a lesser point turned out to be really highlighted and resonated with people.
Uri Schneider: I don't know if you felt that, but I'd love to give you a chance to just tell us a teaser and people should go and get it,
Nina G: read it, please get it. And it's available everywhere. You should get it at your independent bookstore, but it's also on Amazon. Should do an audible. You should do an audible for so many reasons.
Uri Schneider: For those of us who are Dyslexic and to listen to it in the beautiful cadence of your speech.
Nina G: Yes, I would love to do that. And I was thinking about that. Then I started to write another book. So it was, and also stuttering Dyslexics, don't always like to read out loud, but I refused to have anybody else read my book out loud.
Nina G: So that's that's part of the job to get it done.
Uri Schneider: We got to get it done.
Nina G: How to get it done. We got it. Yes. Yes. And also the book is on bookshare.org, so it can be downloaded for free and read out loud. I think for me there were a few things that I wanted to do in the book. I think I started to write the book when I saw,
Nina G: they're not being too much of ability to have a nuanced conversation about anything, especially online. And so I was like, okay, it's not gonna work to express this in my everyday life. I want to take some time and really draw this out. And to have it cross different people's opinion. So people who stutter people who don't stutter men, women, the whole thing.
Nina G: I would love for every woman who stutters to have this book, like that would be my ultimate goal. And that's 250,000 of us in America or something like that. So I would love for that to happen, but whatever. But I think one of the things that I wanted to show was how community impacts the individual.
Nina G: In a really positive way, because
Uri Schneider: I want you to hold. I want you to hold your thought. I just had a an impulse. Yeah, you got your thought. Don't lose it. I want anyone that's listening. Anyone wants to share this. There's a lot of wisdom bombs that Nina G has dropped. If you identify something you loved, you drop a comment on the Facebook feed.
Uri Schneider: Okay. And Nina will pick from those three of her favorites. I will personally drop ship you a copy of her book. How's that? So just pull out the best comments from here and we'll help Nina G not reach the numbers she was hoping for, because I can't fund that alone, but you can replicate this. I will personally drop ship three books to people who put out the comment and at what minute you heard it and we'll use it for sharing on social media to get Nina G's words out there to the world, as well as getting her book into your mailbox.
Nina G: Awesome. Thank you. Okay. So like the thing for me is community because after I went to the conference for people who stutter, this was the NSA conference in 2010, I think, or 2009, 2009. And it was the one in Arizona and it was my first conference in 15 years. Like I went when I was 17 and then I went to, or I guess it was more than that.
Nina G: It was 19 years. And I went when I was 19, but just as a volunteer, then I went to this one more as a professional. But I went, coming back, really knowing how much so stuttering has personally impacted me and the way that I understood that was being around other women, who stutter and realizing how much space I was not taking up because women are socialized not to take up space.
Nina G: And when you stutter, you are socialized not to take up space, no matter what your gender is and how much like guilt that I had. And this is partly like my own Italian Catholic caregiving stuff that I feel guilty about having to put people through my speech and through what I was going to say.
Nina G: So I would minimize myself. And through that, I realized how much I internalize that not only in my speech, but just in who I was and holding back in multiple ways. And when I came back from the conference, I was like, okay, I'm going to make some changes in my life. I made those changes in my life, established a whole new life.
Nina G: And I started comedy six months after that. And that was a direct result of comedy is taking up space and like almost forcing yourself on people some nights if they won't want it or not. And I think comedy has been also a good exercise for me to bring that back into my personal life and, it's art imitating life and being a better self advocate in my personal life too.
Nina G: And showing that in the book.
Uri Schneider: Amazing. And what's been a surprise. What's something people have like really I don't know, is there something you've gotten some really feedback that you, cause I find that people will say things like. Wow. It really hit me when you said whatever and I'm thinking, I either don't remember saying that or that was definitely like number 16 on my top 20 list.
Nina G: Yeah. I think like I was talking to a comic the other day that she sent the book to her sister, and how the sister just kept on to texting her other son. So this sister who stutters, contacted her other sister to sister and was just texting her like, oh my God, I relate to this. This is so true.
Nina G: And it's just not me. This is an experience that other people have. And this is a woman that I would have not had any connection with otherwise, other than it's my friend's sister and some other country, but it's just nice to know that Somebody we don't see our experiences as people who stutter in the popular culture.
Nina G: Traditionally, I have the Porky pig, but back there that Michael Sugarman gave me. There's a story about that, which I won't share right now just because of time. But those are the images we've had. We haven't had realistic ones. And so I'm just so happy that somebody is able to find part of their experience in the book,
Uri Schneider: Not only in the book, Nina, but for some people thinking the funniest person who stutters was Porky pig and he wasn't very flattering and his belly was popping out.
Uri Schneider: I'm going to share with you a comment that was just draft,
Nina G: no pants!
Uri Schneider: No pants. We said, we're going to keep it clean. This is, we're just keeping it above the belt, but yes, no pants leave the rest of your imagination. So Nina G I want to tell you something, your book rocked a lot of people's worlds and in terms of getting the story out there, and for young people, especially young women, but any young people it's invaluable, but I'm going to tell you something right here from one of your friends, but not just a friend the impact that you make just by being you.
Uri Schneider: And I think this speaks to the courage that we should all flex against our Imposter Syndrome voice that says ah, I really should have probably don't ah, Dave Greenan dropped this comment right now. Live as you're talking, Nina's been an influence in my life for years due to my stutter and getting the courage of, to pursue a comedy career.
Uri Schneider: She is such a gracious person. And I think that you didn't, I don't think you became a comedian to be an inspiration.
Nina G: No. In fact I Had a saying in the beginning, that was the exact opposite of that, which I won't say, but yes,
Uri Schneider: Just imagine for yourself. But I think what I want to highlight is just doing your thing Viktor Frankl says you can't chase success.
Uri Schneider: It finds you. And I think just doing your thing, doing your craft and how Nina said at the beginning, when I said, how did you persevere? Right. Comedy career in comedy is hard enough. And then you've got these other things stacked on top of that kind of different cards that have been dealt and you're playing a hand.
Uri Schneider: It doesn't appear to be as even, or as similar to the people that you're competing against. And everyone's struggling. Everyone's having a hard time pushing forward. But just doing your thing, not trying to be a role model, you become one, you become a light, you become an example. All of us, if we just have that courage to be, and to do our thing authentically, and for me, I'll just say very openly and honesty.
Uri Schneider: You, and so many People Who Stutter. I think that's part of what Transcending Stuttering is that it's not just to help People Who Stutter those of us that get to know others who stutter come to appreciate and be inspired, not in a patronizing way, but in a really wholesome way of seeing humans who are stepping up to the plate, stepping up against fear, stepping up over their boundaries and over the limits that they've put on themselves that others have put on them, that society has put on them and seeing them raise their hand, seeing them step up to the mic.
Uri Schneider: Seeing you do your thing has helped me step up to the mic right here. Like I wouldn't be doing this if not for the courage that I've seen in others. So I want to thank you. And Dave is thanking you and I just want to, anyone that's watching or listening probably says, thank you. And I just wanna encourage everybody to do your thing because when you do your thing, you don't worry about what other people are looking at and thinking of you, if you just know you're in your flow, you're doing what you're here to do.
Uri Schneider: You're here to do what people do and you push against all those artificial plastic voices. Not only are you going to be happier, you might even do something preposterous, which is what Nina G has done instead of the opposite. She has become an example, a role model influencer, and
Nina's Words of Wisdom
Uri Schneider: just want to give you a chance to leave any parting wisdom, but you just being you as the wisdom is the example.
Uri Schneider: But any messages you want to squeeze in, it's your chance? The mic is open no time limit.
Nina G: And I think that whole thing around inspiration is so important to talk about, because the way that you talked about inspiration is how we need to talk about inspiration. Because so many times around a disability issue or around stuttering people are like, oh, you're such an inspiration.
Nina G: Like once at a library, I was giving a talk woman comes up to me afterwards and it wasn't even a comedy talk like this was, I was talking about adaptive technology and she comes up to me and she's you are such an inspiration. If I talked to like you, I wouldn't talk at all. And I was like no, that's not the point.
Nina G: And so many times there is disability images out there that inspire inspiration. And the inspiration is oftentimes like, oh, at least I'm not that, oh, if they could do it, then I could do it too, because they don't have legs. So I could do that. It's no, that person is talented and ambitious and you're not.
Nina G: so don't think that you can do it just cause they just cause you have legs and they don't know, that's not the case. And so I like that the inspiration is also so stepping into a position that is changing the world and I inspire you because you're Oh, at least I don't talk like her, but yeah, that's not the point, but if I inspire you to do comedy and David that thank you for that.
Nina G: If I inspire you to help to change how other people that think about stuttering, I am cool with that. If I inspire you just to be less of a jerk to someone in your family who stutters. That's awesome too. But yeah, so that inspiration piece is inspire to change. Not inspire for yourself.
Closing Remarks
Uri Schneider: I'll just leave it there because nothing could say it better. I am going to come back on live and share some more stories. If you want to learn more, you can pick it out of schneiderspeech.com/tsa. We have cohorts for speech, language pathologists, professionals who are interested in being better guides, more tuned and more skilled in being there to be professional allies and guides for People Who Stutter.
Uri Schneider: And we have cohorts where People Who Stutter and the blog has all these conversations and show notes and Nina can send me any and all links and previous shows and things that are, waist up for this, a blog post that will make for Nina, but there's a whole collection, but I just want to thank Nina G we're right up there with President Biden.
Uri Schneider: He had you at the inauguration. We got you for this episode. I've now been an opener for the headliner who knows what's next. I've got to work on my delivery on that Seinfeld line, but it's been a treat. And as someone else's commenting, one of our dear friends and shared friends, Tom from Florida, He says I could listen to Nina all day.
Uri Schneider: And what he means to say is Uri shut up and let Nina , talk some more. So I just want to say it's been a treat and I thank you for sharing your wisdom. And I encourage everybody. Can we just get the book up here again, everybody should get your book Stutterer Interrupted The Comedian Who Almost Didn't Happen.
Uri Schneider: And again, my promise is if you drop us your favorite lines from this episode Nina will pick three and then we'll message you privately. And I will drop ship you three copies. Maybe Nina has got something to add.
Nina G: And what I'll do is I will sign those copies and send them to you. And then you do all the other stuff, because I don't want to have to do that.
Nina G: So it may take a while, but yes
Uri Schneider: You can choose to get Stutterer Interrupted express delivery, or we can do it with a couple of stops, a couple, Appropriate. If you know what I mean? So
Nina G: I'll figure it out,
Uri Schneider: Check it out. It's also on all podcasts, all platforms anywhere you want to listen to Transcending Stuttering and big things are coming.
Uri Schneider: Thank you, Nina G it has been a treat.
Nina G: Thank you. Take care, everyone.