#81 From Getting Help to Giving Help with Naomi Zauderer
“When you experience a shift like that inside of yourself, there’s just this feeling like anything in the world is possible.”
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Naomi Zauderer, LCSW is a compassionate psychotherapist. She excels in empowering people to reveal their own limiting narratives, overcome what holds them back and pave the way to thrive with authenticity and strength. Drawing from her own life experiences as a person who stutters, Naomi brings unique sensitivity and insight to her work with individuals who stutter. She has helped many clients who stutter expand their self-perception and overcome barriers, empowering them to communicate with confidence. Drawing on her work with people of all ages facing challenges such as anxiety, depression, relationship issues, and low-self esteem, Naomi is keenly attuned to each person’s unique strengths and tailors her approach to fit their personal needs. She fosters meaningful change for her clients by incorporating art, movement, mindfulness, and various holistic methods of therapy. Learn more about Naomi Zauderer https://schneiderspeech.com/naomi-zauderer
EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS
00:00:00 - Introduction of Naomi Zauderer and her current role
00:01:54 - Naomi describes her "rock bottom" with stuttering in middle school
00:03:23 - Naomi's personality as a young child before stuttering became an issue
00:05:16 - Formative experiences in school and avoidance strategies
00:08:00 - The stuttering iceberg metaphor explained
00:10:00 - How drawing cartoons helped externalize overwhelming experiences
00:15:26 - Naomi's bat mitzvah speech experience and intense anxiety
00:20:00 - Finding Uri in the audience and gaining courage to continue
00:23:13 - The "Daddy Naomi Radio" show as a bonding experience
00:27:12 - The turning point in ninth grade with social and academic pressures
00:28:05 - Stuttering as a scapegoat for other challenges
00:30:08 - How focusing less on stuttering led to more fluency
00:40:11 - The pizza analogy: reducing the proportion of stuttering in identity
00:42:00 - Patch Adams story: looking beyond the problem to see solutions
00:47:48 - The "secret knowledge" gained through adversity
00:50:21 - Naomi's journey to becoming a therapist
00:51:53 - Addressing underlying shame and beliefs beyond fluency
00:54:34 - What Naomi would tell her younger self: "You're so much more than your stuttering"
00:55:57 - Advice for parents, teachers, and employers: focus on content, not delivery
00:57:10 - Closing reflections on protecting children's innate self-confidence
MORE QUOTES
"I was kind of at the rock bottom of my stuttering journey... I was going through a really difficult time in my stuttering journey." - Naomi Zauderer
"From first to maybe fourth grade, I was like the class clown. I loved to make people laugh... I was a pretty friendly kid." - Naomi Zauderer
"Part of my journey to greater fluency was actually not focusing on stuttering as much." - Naomi Zauderer
"You're so much more than your stuttering." - Naomi Zauderer
"Show them that what they're saying matters, not how they're saying it." - Naomi Zauderer
"I believe that kids are born with self esteem. Kids are born with self confidence and self worth. We can do things to protect that." - Uri Schneider
"When you experience a shift like that inside of yourself, there's just this feeling like anything in the world is possible." - Naomi Zauderer
"I had access to like a certain secret knowledge base that maybe other people didn't have, because they didn't have the same struggles." - Naomi Zauderer
"Stuttering, which is something that really keeps people sometimes apart, actually brings a lot of people together." - Uri Schneider
TRANSCRIPTION:
[00:00:00] Uri Schneider: Okay, well it's great to be here. Um, it's, or Schneider, it's been a long time since we've done an episode with transcending stuttering. I think we're gonna be shifting towards thinking about transcending X. You'll understand why after this episode. We have a very, very special guest. There are a lot of special guests, but the most special people are the people I've known for the longest and have, um, have taught me the most.
So Naomi Zauderer is really, it's great to have you here. And the first time I invited you kind of said, I'll think about it. You were excited to do it. You're also hesitant. So I'm so excited we're finally here. What would you, um, how would you introduce yourself just like professionally what you're doing now just to kind of tell everybody and then we'll talk about, you know, the journey that brought us here.
[00:00:46] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah. Firstly, it's so great to be here. This is, this is wonderful to sit here with you. And if my childhood self knew that I would be doing this, she would think I was really cool right now. Yeah. So right now I am a clinical social worker. I live in Tel Aviv, and I see people both here in Israel and in the U.
S. And, uh, I specialize in different kinds of therapy. One of those modalities is sensory motor psychotherapy. Um, I'm trained in EMDR, IFS. We can get into more of the therapy stuff later, perhaps.
[00:01:23] Uri Schneider: Um, and the excuse for us to meet when you were all of 9, 10 years old. was that you stutter. Um, so I think that's what brings us together.
And I find it so interesting that stuttering, which is something that really keeps people sometimes apart, actually brings a lot of people together. And that's how we got to meet each other. I was the, the guide, the professional, and you were the client. Um, how would you describe yourself at that age when we met around, you know, middle school, entering junior high school?
Yeah,
[00:01:54] Naomi Zauderer: wow. Middle co Middle school and during junior high school was a time where I was kind of at the rock bottom of my stuttering journey. It was a really rough time for me. I remember myself being very self absorbed in my stuttering and my identity as someone who stuttered really struggled with it.
Um, uh, Right, so it was around 11, 12 years old, I think, right, when I first came to see you.
[00:02:25] Uri Schneider: It had to 12, because then we led up to the bat mitzvah.
[00:02:27] Naomi Zauderer: Right, okay, so it was, there, there was perhaps a progression from, from 10 year old Naomi to 12 year old Naomi, although I don't quite remember when, when that transition happened, but I do remember that when I was with you and speaking to you and sharing about What was going on for me?
I was going through a really difficult time in my studying journey.
[00:02:52] Uri Schneider: So we didn't meet when you were five or six.
[00:02:54] Naomi Zauderer: No.
[00:02:55] Uri Schneider: And as you said, like there was an evolution of progression. And here you are today as a therapist, helping others process and heal and strengthen. So it's, it's the long view to me is the most interesting thing.
And you're living, you're a living story and our relationship is a living story. What was, what were you like as a young girl, like before this was a big deal? What were you like? What do you remember? What do you think of as like identifying with 5, 6, 7 years old?
[00:03:23] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah, so at that age, I would say 5, 6, 7 year old Naomi looked very different from 10, 11, 12 year old Naomi and then teenage Naomi actually.
I would say that I think of myself at that younger age as being really, um, I would say like kind of confident. I was a funny kid. Confident. Yeah. I, I, I was, I was warm and loving and friendly and I was a goofball. Really open. You was a goofball. Yes. That I would say, um, From first to maybe fourth grade. I was like the class clown.
I Loved to make people laugh. I I was a pretty friendly kid. I was chatty I also really enjoyed bringing other people out So especially if there was someone who I viewed as being more like quiet I actually really took an interest in them and was kind of interested in like bringing them into things and It's kind of just like curious to get to know everyone
[00:04:33] Uri Schneider: That wasn't the Naomi that I met.
[00:04:34] Naomi Zauderer: No.
[00:04:35] Uri Schneider: How do you remember the Naomi that walked in the door when we met there on Main Street?
[00:04:39] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah. A much more self conscious Naomi. It was a time where I became much more aware of my stuttering and how it affected me. Um, I would say at that time I was much more self conscious when it came to, um, Um, socially and then also just in school and stuttering was a huge part of my identity and what I felt like I really struggled with.
[00:05:06] Uri Schneider: Is there a formative experience or anecdote that stands out for you in terms of what was hard? Whether it was at school, at home, with friends?
[00:05:16] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah. Um, there were definitely a lot of situations in school where I felt like I wanted to be a part of the conversation and I felt like I wasn't able to, um, like there was just like a lot of like banter during recess and kids who were just talking a lot and really fast and feeling like I wouldn't be able to get a word in.
Um, and then academically it was really challenging for me because I think that my natural personality. Is that I like to participate and I like to share and I got really anxious when I would raise my hand and it was like all of a sudden I would put my hand up and it would be like, and it really made it so difficult for me to participate.
I spent a lot of time in school. In school, thinking about how I could get out of those speaking situations. So, on the first day of school, for example, when the teacher would usually go around the room and have everyone say their name, I would find every reason to be out of the classroom or to have, like, hurt myself.
Or, you know, oh, I have to go to the nurse. Um, situations like that. And I just spent a lot of time in thinking about avoidance strategies. Um, feeling anxious about exercises where we had to go around the room and give our answer. Things like that.
[00:06:37] Uri Schneider: Yeah, we were in a meeting together online, international meeting, just recently.
And the facilitator said, okay, if anybody has questions, raise your hand. And if you don't, we're just going to pick on someone. And I was thinking, yeah, for people, for most people, they don't like that. That doesn't like make people be open and say the best stuff.
[00:06:53] Naomi Zauderer: Yes. And then
[00:06:54] Uri Schneider: afterwards we spoke about it and you were like, Oh yeah, that was like a trigger for me.
Yeah, absolutely. So what, what do you remember being, um, I remember you walking into the office and just your body language. You know, people ask like, how can you read somebody? Just look at how they walk in. Are they kind of open? Are they kind of closed? Are they hunched over? I remember you kind of shuffling in, very guarded in your body language, um, and then look at you now.
You know? So, I guess what stands out to you in terms of what was unhelpful in your therapy experience? What was really helpful? What are some things that stand out?
[00:07:31] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah, so I would say what was really helpful for me starting off with that was that I just had a space where I could share about my stuttering and my experiences.
Um, There weren't many other spaces for me to be able to share what was going on, right? You, you give the iceberg analogy many times. You could share about that if, if you'd like to.
[00:07:59] Uri Schneider: The iceberg that, you know, most people just look at what's on top. So, you know, we think about what we see and what we hear and what we can measure, what we can touch, but there's a whole world beneath the surface.
And the iceberg, I think about the Titanic. Titanic's coming along and it sinks because it hit an iceberg. It's not like they didn't see the iceberg and they smashed into it. It looked like it was out in the distance. Underwater, the Titanic was very deep. And it hit the part of the iceberg beneath the surface.
Yep. Not the part that was sticking out. And so, often, I think, probably we'll get to this. You can shed a lot of light in trauma. But, you know, we might touch something. We didn't even see that we touched something. Yeah. But it expands beneath the surface. And so, You know, looking at both what can we see and hear above the surface, but also what's going on beneath the surface, there can be really hard stuff, unpleasant stuff.
It can also be assets of strength and resilience and determination and creativity, um, all mixed in. But it's so important that we look not just at the surface behaviors, but also get. Beneath the surface. Yeah,
[00:09:03] Naomi Zauderer: exactly. And I would say going to you as a therapist gave me that space to share about what was underneath the iceberg, right?
Everybody saw the stuttering, or at least I was really conscious of the stuttering. And as you also talk about with the iceberg, that there is like what is manifest, what everybody sees, right? And maybe from the outside my stutter wasn't all that bad. I don't remember. All that good. Like you didn't stutter very well.
All that good. Exactly. It wasn't that big. Maybe I didn't. It wasn't that
[00:09:33] Uri Schneider: noticeable to other people.
[00:09:35] Naomi Zauderer: Maybe not. Um, but to me, underneath the iceberg, there was so much, there was so much word switching. There was anxiety about speaking and being able to come and have a place to share about my experiences and being really understood and you have a really, you YouTube presence and I definitely felt comfortable to share with you.
Another thing was that you encouraged me to draw and I got to know the facts that I really like to draw cartoons. And that was the start of my cartooning journey. And what that really enabled me to do is draw out situations that happened in this like comic strip form and express to you and me. Maybe to, to my parents, to others, whoever would see this, it was usually just you, my parents, maybe, um, what I was experiencing inside in a way that words couldn't quite articulate.
And the experience inside, right? The bottom of that iceberg felt really huge and overwhelming. There's so many emotions going on underneath the surface. Anger. Like what?
[00:10:49] Uri Schneider: Anger. Anger. Anger. Things that were rushing. Frustration feelings, right?
[00:10:52] Naomi Zauderer: There's like, this is so frustrating that I just raised my hand to share and my teacher just moves on to the next person.
'cause I'm like, um. Um, um, she's like, Oh, is there anybody else who knows the answer? That's the cartoon that you drew
[00:11:05] Uri Schneider: then.
[00:11:05] Naomi Zauderer: Uh huh. Yeah. So there's like anger and frustration. There's shame and embarrassment. There's the anxiety. What happens when I raise my hand? Um. And maybe anticipation, right? There's so much going on underneath the surface that words at that age and generally may not fully encapsulate and describe what the experience is like, right?
But I, I think that there's a, there were a few things for me for cartooning. One thing was, is that it took an experience that was so huge and so overwhelming and it externalized it and it made it into something that was kind of really tangible. All right, that you can look at the picture and see what happened and get a sense of what I was experiencing inside.
So it turns a really overwhelming situation into something that was more like comprehensible and, um, something that I can look at and say, okay, well, what's happening there for me? And it actually turned something that was like a really anxiety provoking, overwhelming experience into something that was like cute and.
Pretty and fun and maybe even funny, right? So it, it, it like allowed me to change that narrative a little bit too.
[00:12:28] Uri Schneider: Yeah, it lifted the weight.
[00:12:29] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah.
[00:12:30] Uri Schneider: Different way to look at it. And you can't do that through talking all the time. No. Especially if talking doesn't come easy.
[00:12:35] Naomi Zauderer: Right.
[00:12:36] Uri Schneider: Um, I have a disclosure. A full reveal.
Mm hmm. I shared this in one of the earlier episodes with Greg Pandice. I didn't know what I was doing with that cartooning exercise. It was like bouncing around in my head and I said to myself, I can never do this. I should never even go there, and I certainly don't draw well. And then what happened was, I just went for it.
You know, I gave it a go, and I think about had I not gone for it, we never would have gotten all those amazing, you know, pictures. And the prompt I remember, and I saved them, and then when I was cleaning the office out, I then contacted you to share the originals with you, which I think you have, and you recently posted a beautiful blog, and we co hosted it on our website also.
About the drawings and about what that did and one prompt was draw me a picture and I even said it was a different girl. It was a girl, Nancy. She's also 10 years old and Nancy stutters. Just draw me a picture of a scene and you chose to draw the picture of Nancy or yourself sitting in class wanting to say what you wanted to say.
And then I said, Okay, now draw another picture of Nancy, but this Nancy, she doesn't stutter. And then that was kind of like the, the alternative. And so it gave both an opportunity for you to bring me into and give insight to my, to me and to yourself. What does it look like if like, I'm observing myself in this situation that is so unpleasant.
Okay. And what would I really want it to look like? What would I want it to be like? What would I wish for? And a lot of that. Is blocked if we don't do it through some other medium. So just you taught me and since then I used Drawing again and again and again and again. I found that the people I did it with draw much better than I do
[00:14:13] Naomi Zauderer: I
[00:14:13] Uri Schneider: wouldn't describe my cartoons as pretty and it doesn't matter
[00:14:16] Naomi Zauderer: how how how pretty they are.
It still expresses something Yeah, I, I recall you pointing out to me in one of the cartoons that I drew that somebody that one of the stick figures that I drew just didn't have any emotions on her face. There were no eyes or nose or mouth. And I think in that future drawing there, there was an eyes and nose and mouth, right?
So like, even that itself described something that was huge going on underneath. And just pointing that out to me, increase my own awareness.
[00:14:49] Uri Schneider: I think we, uh, we don't have to be egomaniacs to become self absorbed with the things that we're caught up with. And they consume so much. They, they pull us in, and they take us out of the life and the relationships and the intimacy that we really want to have.
So, so cool that in the picture of the wish, suddenly there are faces. Now you look people in the face, stand differently, and So those were some helpful things. Other things that stand out as helpful. We can go to the other side.
[00:15:18] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah. Um,
[00:15:21] Uri Schneider: helpful experiences that
[00:15:23] Naomi Zauderer: brought you
[00:15:23] Uri Schneider: along
[00:15:26] Naomi Zauderer: experiences. Uh, well, there was my bat mitzvah speech, which was a whole whole thing all together.
[00:15:34] Uri Schneider: So glad you brought that up.
[00:15:35] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah.
[00:15:36] Uri Schneider: That's like a core memory for me too.
[00:15:38] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah. Your bat
[00:15:39] Uri Schneider: mitzvah speech.
[00:15:40] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah. Um, I'm curious if you want to share anything about what, what, what you remember about it or what stands out for you.
[00:15:47] Uri Schneider: I had a lot of anticipation. I was nervous for your bat mitzvah speech. And it wasn't that I was nervous, would you do a good job?
But it was more I wanted to set the stage. And I often tell parents of kids at this transition life cycle event and it can be in so many things. It could be a bar mitzvah, a bat mitzvah, a confirmation, whatever. Valedictorian speech, you know, it doesn't have to be the same for every kid. So a person can go through this experience and they can give a big speech.
They could also give a speech to a more intimate audience. They could also choose to pre record it and turn it into a video, with animation, or with b roll, and all sorts of creative ways. Um, they could also choose not to give a speech. They could do something else, or they could just not give a speech at all.
None of these moments are defined by the speech, but in our minds, there's this expectation that it has to be, and so I remember for you and for your family and for so many others, really making it a point for the family, for the parents, parents will ask me, Well, should we make them give the speech? Cause if we don't, they'll shy away from giving speeches the rest of their life.
Should we give them a pass? Like this is probably too hard. This is gonna be traumatic. But if we do that, like, and I guess there's no other way. Right. And, and my thing is always like, well, maybe there's another option, one of these creative options, perhaps. So maybe it's not binary. Maybe there's another option.
And most importantly, who's the stakeholder that no one asks. The person like what do you want? Like, let's have this back and forth. So you have an opinion So I don't know how it went for you leading up to the bat mitzvah But my hope was that the choice that you made to give the speech was your own I don't know if any of these choices and process Kind of were part of your memory of how you got there.
[00:17:37] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah, I I actually don't have I don't recall, but what I do know is that I think for myself, it was an expectation. It was like, this is what's done. This is what everyone else is doing. This is what my siblings did. And maybe inside there was a feeling of, well, if I don't do this, I would kind of be a disappointment.
So I, I would assume that that probably factored into how I made the decision, if I was given the decision, although I, to be honest, I just don't remember the process. I'd have to, have to do a little digging. There were moments
[00:18:17] Uri Schneider: that might have wiped out the memories around it. Yeah. What was the memory that you do have of how that day went?
Because I was standing there somewhere in the middle of the room, being present, not taking up too much space, but very much attentive and present and rooting for you. What was, what was it like for you getting up there?
[00:18:34] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah. That memory definitely has a very special place in my mind as being a very, uh, Um, difficult, intense, overwhelming.
One for me, as someone who, who stuttered, it just, it felt really scary to go up there and speak. And I recall before giving the presentation, just those feelings of overwhelm and I was crying and I wasn't sure if I wanted to do it. And my dad said to me, you know, you don't need to do this if you don't want to.
But I had already made up my mind that I was going to do it, and there was so much fear. The fear was, was, was just so disproportional to what was going on. But for me at that time, it was huge. And I remember going up there and looking around and not being able to get out the first word. So much anxiety and a lot of shame, embarrassment in that moment.
And I was standing up there, I can't tell you how long it took me to get out that first word. And I was thinking, now everybody knows. Those, yeah, those people who I've never spoken to, who didn't know that this was a problem for me. Now they know. And, uh, what I do recall is looking across the room and seeing you.
And knowing that you believed in me. Knowing that you had seen me. Give the speech over and over and over again in your office, practicing for it. And there was something about looking at you and seeing your presence that I actually remember enabled me to start. It was like I saw you and you were smiling and there was something.
Energetically that I felt that it was, you believe in me and I can do this.
[00:20:32] Uri Schneider: There are people I don't believe in.
[00:20:34] Naomi Zauderer: Just
[00:20:34] Uri Schneider: to set the record straight. There's a mirror of sorts. There's this, there's something that a person vibes. That you were vibing. That your dad said you don't have to do this. Now someone else could have said, thanks dad, I'm out of here.
But you got up there. I didn't get you up there. Your dad didn't get you up there. You put yourself up there. Now, whether it was driven by all sorts of things, there was something to this day, I think that you knew you were capable and as scary and as frightening and as negative as it might be and had been, you kept going for it.
And that's what was like the invitation for me to believe in you. I felt like that was the signal that you wanted me to believe you could do it and to keep that flame, to keep that light on for you. Um, and I'm so glad I did. Mmm, me too. Means a lot. So what, uh, what were some unhelpful things? And then we can kind of, Mmm, I don't remember.
Through your experience of other therapy, Yeah. Things that I did, things that you went through otherwise. Because I think it's helpful. Mm hmm. What I think is it's empowering for you to share more than I could share. There are paths that are not worth going down. Mm hmm. And there are paths that are worth checking out.
And then being able to say yeah, this is not for me. But then there are things that are just no nos. Like no one should have to bear or go through that kind of thing. And I think that there's a feeling of compulsion, either that people have for themselves, seeking solutions to their challenges, or that people thrust upon people, like you should really do this.
Until you give this a try, you'll never be able to say you didn't. And like, no thank you, but if everyone's guilting me into it, I guess I'll do it. And I'm just all about like saying like, No, that wasn't good for me, and I wish I hadn't gone down that road, and it doesn't mean it's for everyone. But at least for you,
[00:22:20] Naomi Zauderer: yeah, I don't think there's anything that I wish I hadn't gone down that road, but I can tell you that the fluency enhancing techniques that that you taught me and that I would practice you with you in the office.
I don't think I had a lot of spillover to like real life situations. Um, I would practice them at home with my dad. Um, and that was really nice bonding time that I still treasure.
[00:22:46] Uri Schneider: The techniques today were not as helpful, didn't have as much carry over, but can you share what you and your dad did? Because it's kind of like the example they say, like whether the therapy was the right therapy or the wrong therapy, we don't know.
But sometimes couple therapy works better when it's further distance to travel. Because that becomes this interesting factor of having time together. So what was the byproduct of practicing with your dad?
[00:23:10] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah, absolutely. There was a latent
[00:23:12] Uri Schneider: benefit.
[00:23:13] Naomi Zauderer: Right. Um, well, It's it's really incredible, but my dad designated a lot of time to sitting with me and Practicing the strategies with me, but really it just gave me the opportunity to bond with him and to share with him What was going on with me?
What what was happening in my day? My dad created this really cute like radio program thing that he called Daddy Naomi radio. Wow, I love that. Daddy Naomi radio. Here we go. Daddy Naomi radio. He even had a theme song. So this is
[00:23:51] Uri Schneider: familiar. Like he would sit at one mic, you'd be at the other live.
[00:23:54] Naomi Zauderer: Yes.
[00:23:55] Uri Schneider: And you thought, and he thought it was like homework to practice talking, but really it was for him to be listening.
[00:24:00] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah,
[00:24:00] Uri Schneider: sounds like it became a
[00:24:01] Naomi Zauderer: exactly
[00:24:02] Uri Schneider: space and you said like it was interesting because when you described coming to meet me
[00:24:07] Naomi Zauderer: Mm hmm
[00:24:07] Uri Schneider: wasn't about me. It was about having a space There were so few spaces where you could just say what you were going to and it sounds like Daddy, Naomi radio show was was a bit of that.
That is amazing. And that's a big test. That's what parents can do You know Even in the hard times where you don't know what to do, but doing something and like creating that little ritual. You said that that's something that stands out, that you remember in a really, really rich way. Very much so. That's amazing.
As a person, as a partner, as a parent, I think it's something we can really, I can take home.
[00:24:42] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah. And I, I don't, I don't know. I mean, my, my, my parents paid attention to all of us kids, but I don't know if my siblings got that like really special secret time with him like I did because you encouraged that.
And that was a part of my stuttering journey that I'm so grateful for. And
[00:25:02] Uri Schneider: it's very common that when this work happens well. The siblings start to complain. Hey, why don't I get special time? Parents are like, well, what should we do? They didn't come for having a problem. No, no, that's a good problem to have.
You should spread it out, and each kid should rotate. It shouldn't be that just this kid gets all this extra time and attention. You should carve out the time for everybody. What, um, so what happens next? After the button misfire, you pull through, and I remember Standing there rooting for you. I'll share the story I shared with you that previous teacher of mine.
Um, it's amazing. Unbelievable. So she, she was going to Catholic school and she was going to be a salutatorian. She was going to give a speech. And also like your bat mitzvah, she dreaded it. She wished someone else was the salutatorian. And, uh, she invited me for a number of reasons I couldn't go. And there she is starting to give the speech.
And like you, she gets stuck on the first word like so many people. And there's like silence in the cathedral. And all of a sudden a voice comes out and says, Come on Nina, you can do it! And then she has this like breakthrough and she gives this unbelievable speech, gets a standing ovation, end of the program, she comes back to her mom, she's like, who said that?
Was it you? Was it anti this? Was it anti that? No? No? No? To this day she can't find the angel. She's like, come on Nina, you can do it! And so Nina Had that experience and then I brought that to the bat mitzvah. I said, look, I can't give the speech for you I can't teach you how to do it flawlessly. I can give you the confidence that you've stood there You can get through it.
You will probably have some bumps along the way, but you also have the strength to get through them Yeah. And, uh, and then I stood there and I was totally vibing, come on, Nina, you could do it. I just swapped out Naomi for Nina. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. So then you go on, we lose touch for a couple of years, um, and then you emerge as this incredible therapist, this professional.
So like what drew you and what was important to you and how did it all come back? Into your own informed by your story.
[00:27:12] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah, what you
[00:27:13] Uri Schneider: went through and what you would have felt you needed.
[00:27:15] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah So I do think a really important turning point in my in my stuttering journey was in ninth grade when I Hit kind of for me.
It was like the rock bottom of stuttering It was a time where I would say ninth grade, I had a lot of social pressure, a lot of academic pressure, and for me, it all culminated in stuttering. Like, that was kind of like the scapegoat of, I can't make friends because I can't speak and I can't do well academically because I can't participate.
We haven't
[00:27:55] Uri Schneider: spoken about this, but that's something I think about a lot about scapegoats. Can you talk more about that? What that means in this context? Like, basically taking all your problems and pinning them all on this. One thing.
[00:28:05] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah.
[00:28:06] Uri Schneider: Even though they probably have a lot less to do than with that thing, but just convenient to throw it all on there.
[00:28:10] Naomi Zauderer: Absolutely. I so
[00:28:12] Uri Schneider: interesting
[00:28:13] Naomi Zauderer: it. Well, it was this one thing that I could identify as being so different from everybody else. I like look around the classroom. I look around my grade in my school and I'm like, well, I'm the only one with this thing that and I'm feeling really terrible inside. And it's probably because of this thing that I'm feeling so, um, so blocked and, and the truth was that it really did prevent me from, from engaging in things, but I also think that I was really focusing on it.
I was hyper focused on the times that I would stutter. Um, So what does that look
[00:28:50] Uri Schneider: like in those years? What's going hard or what's what's what are you holding back from you wanted to be doing?
[00:28:56] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah. Well, I, I felt school's
[00:28:59] Uri Schneider: rough for anyone, you know,
[00:29:01] Naomi Zauderer: I felt like my stuttering was really noticeable. And I felt like I was kind of the weirdo that couldn't say my name.
And that may or may not have been true. But that was what I felt. I felt that like
[00:29:14] Uri Schneider: feeling was true. Here's whether you're a weirdo.
[00:29:16] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah. I was out exactly. I felt like peers people would look at me and it was annoying to be friends with someone who wasn't able to speak and participate in conversations.
They had to wait longer for me or. I was like kind of just like what's wrong with you. That was my self perception and I also felt like it was getting in the way academically. I like felt like if I couldn't participate in school in the way that I wanted to, if I couldn't do the group project and the presentation and raise my hand, it just felt like all encompassing for me because it was something I focused so much on.
And actually part of my journey to, um, Greater fluency was actually not focusing on stuttering as much.
[00:30:08] Uri Schneider: So, sorry, we're going to just pull that out again. The path that brought you to kind of have less blocks in your speech, to have more flow, was not working on and focusing on the stutter. That's kind of counterintuitive.
[00:30:24] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah. Yeah. So, I'll share with you a bit how, how I learned this and, and how this all came about. So, I was showing how in, in ninth grade, it was really the climax of, um, the social pressure and the anxiety around stuttering. And, uh, On a day where I felt particularly desperate about my speech, and I actually remember giving an oral presentation that day in Spanish class, and I had the entire presentation memorized, and I went up in front of the class, and Just couldn't get it out.
That was also the nature of my stuttering. I, I wasn't like us like a stutter that would kind of say the word again and again or things like that. It was like I just couldn't start and I couldn't get the word out. Um, really big blocks. So I felt so humiliated. I felt so angry and frustrated. Gosh, I like it.
Worked so hard on this presentation. I just couldn't do it and I failed it and That night you failed
[00:31:32] Uri Schneider: it or a teacher failed you
[00:31:34] Naomi Zauderer: I think the teacher failed me But it felt like I failed it because the teacher fell to me
[00:31:40] Uri Schneider: It's hard to feel you didn't fail as a teacher. Yeah,
[00:31:42] Naomi Zauderer: yeah. Um, and there were more than one, um, presentations like that in those few days where there were like a number of things where I just couldn't do it and then failed it and, um, it felt really frustrating over and over again.
And
[00:31:57] Uri Schneider: at that time, was anyone talking to the teachers? Did they know what was going on or they thought you just didn't prepare?
[00:32:03] Naomi Zauderer: Hmm, I don't think I really communicated good. Uh, sort of. I think I tried to communicate that I stuttered, but didn't really get much, much of a response in terms of like helping to change the environment or figure out ways where I could, um, where I can do something else or not get that, um, not be penalized essentially for stuttering and not being able to do the presentation.
Um, fortunate. Unfortunately, we just didn't have, I, I didn't experience that. Um, yeah. So on, on one, um, really difficult day. I went home and I was determined to find something. I was like, I, I can't live like this anymore. And I did a Google search of how to stop stuttering and start speaking. And I came across all sorts of interesting, weird things.
Um, and one thing that I found. That was really helpful, um, was a program by this guy named Michael Williams and his program was how to start, stop stuttering and start speaking. That's what it was called. And I was like, Hey, this looks interesting. It looks more interesting than these like hearing aid looking devices that you put in your ear and like repeats the word after you or like hypnotherapy or like medication that treats like seizures and stuttering.
And those things I thought probably can't get my hands on them right now. Um, so I said, okay, this looks interesting. Let me give it a try. And I started doing his program. It was a lot of cognitive work and it was, um, you know, just this person who was a preacher actually, and he had his own journey with stuttering and then came out with some tools and techniques to help other people.
And, uh, I latched onto it. And was taking copious notes. It worked. Um, and it was really, really helpful for me. It was like kind of within two months, my speech was like dramatically changed in terms of the fluency that I was experiencing.
[00:34:28] Uri Schneider: It's hard to consolidate, but if you could try. What would be like a point or two that were, that resonated for you that you kind of hooked into?
[00:34:38] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah, so one of the things were that he shared with us that everyone stutters actually everyone has has interruptions in their speech and what happens for people who stutter. And also, I just want to give a caveat. I'm not showing this as like truth. I'm showing this as this is what he shared that that helped me.
And just because it helped me doesn't mean that it would help anybody else. There could be so many things, including a placebo effects including right so I just wanna give that as a caveat disclaimer. Absolutely, yes. , show
[00:35:10] Uri Schneider: me the conversations we've had. We've talked about how there are things. That may have been said by me and were picked up very differently by you.
And, uh, where's the truth? I don't know. They're both truth. You know, I had an intention. That's what I said. That's how it landed for you. And that's as true for you as what my intention was for me. And then, that's what's so precious about this conversation and so many of our conversations. So what stuck with you and worked, what was helpful for you doesn't mean it's a copy paste for anyone else.
[00:35:38] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah, exactly. So, something that he shared with me. With us is that when we stutter and we focus on it, then we're giving that stuttering incident a lot of significance in our mind. And our brains are basically prediction machines. Um, and if we Think, if, if we're paying a lot of attention to stuttering, then it actually may increase the likelihood in the future of stuttering, right?
Because something happens, we're focusing on it, our brain is giving it a lot of credence, and then our brain anticipates and predicts that this will happen again, and then we stutter more. So what he had us do is focus on the times that we speak really smoothly and fluently and with confidence. And then, when that happens.
He encouraged us to like really celebrate those moments and what he shared is that when you get really happy or excited about something, there's a dopamine release in your brain and when that happens, dopamine is actually a really important neurochemical that helps form new neural networks. So the combination of the smooth speech plus the hit of dopamine by going, yes, that was awesome.
Right. And kind of like. Like, like hiking yourself up as if like, wow, I did such a great job creases that rush of dopamine, which leads to kind of like the formation of new neural networks of smooth, fluent speech, and then your brain is more likely to think that that's really significant and starting a new and starts to develop a new pattern in the future.
So that was a huge part of it. Um, was just what was I focusing on was I focusing on stuttering and every time I started going, oh, oh, that was terrible. So embarrassing. I hate that. Right. Ruminating about it, or actually,
[00:37:35] Uri Schneider: it's really like nailing in hyping in. I'm thinking of it like the little baby shoes, like if you just leave them, they just age and wither, but some people like put them in bronze, you know, and then like they're for forever.
And so you take these experiences, often negative ones, you ruminate on them. It's kind of like. Giving them this whole, like,
[00:37:55] Naomi Zauderer: veneer.
[00:37:55] Uri Schneider: And, uh, if we do that intentionally with the positive experiences, that's so, so powerful.
[00:38:01] Naomi Zauderer: Absolutely. Absolutely. And as I was saying earlier, my perception as stuttering being a huge part of my identity was that rumination and focusing on it.
But if I were to go back to myself as a younger child, I can tell my younger self all the things that she was, Aside from stuttering, right, that, that, that, that didn't need to be as big a part of my identity as it was in my younger years, but it was because I focused on those things.
[00:38:35] Uri Schneider: I remember when we did the drawings besides the cartoons of Nancy and Naomi in class.
There was also the pizza.
You know, what are the different things in your life? There was like, homework, there was ice skating, there was eating, there was stuttering, there was talking to friends, there was bike riding, you had all these things that were part of your life as a junior high school girl, and you allocated how many slices of the pie were consumed by this thing, kind of like toppings.
And I remember, I think you gave stuttering like two and a half slices at a certain point, and talk about like a great, a great cage. Of how big a deal this was for you. And then over time, I remember you turning to me the next time we did it and you said, You know, does it have to be a whole slice? I said, whatever you want.
And you're like, I think I'll just make it like a stuffed crust. It kind of touches all the slices, but it doesn't consume the slice. The slice is available. For these other activities and interests that are important to me, but I can just put it there. It exists, but it's not overdone
[00:39:47] Naomi Zauderer: Disproportionate growth.
Yeah. Yeah, and then there were the mushroom pies. Do you remember that? Yeah Totally. No, the mushroom pies were that stuttering were like the mushrooms sprinkled on top of the pie Which I love I always like mushroom
And so, yeah, it's kind of like a little drizzle of it everywhere.
[00:40:11] Uri Schneider: We were on that same call. And somebody said to me, they thought that this analogy was really, really powerful. And it's spot on with what you were talking about.
[00:40:19] Naomi Zauderer: Perspective. I was just thinking about that too.
[00:40:20] Uri Schneider: Where's your focus, right? So there's this cool thing like the camera right now is focused on my face.
If it's out of focus, it would be focusing on this plant or this thing behind me. Or it would be focused here and I would be blurry. Yeah. So there's this scene in Patch Adams. You know Patch Adams? You ever watch the movie?
[00:40:36] Naomi Zauderer: I've heard of it, but I haven't. Robin
[00:40:38] Uri Schneider: Williams, one of his best. So probably more than anything I learned from my father.
And more than anything I learned from my professional training. I wouldn't say more, I would say after those two, this is the most influential thing I ever learned. And that is, Patch Adams has this scene where he's in medical school. And he's committed to helping patients. People not treating problems and the medical school keeps telling him stop dealing with the people just study the book study the problem study the solution study the treatments, but he doesn't listen to them, and it gets him a lot of trouble, but he goes into this, uh, it was a psych ward, and there's a gentleman there who walks up to everyone quite violently.
It says how many fingers do you see? How many fingers do you see? Everyone says four, and then he kind of curses them out. Are you idiots? Hmm. And he says, what's up with this guy? Oh, he used to be this advanced mathematician, uh, but he's clearly lost it. And Adam says, it must be sun to it. It must be sun to it.
So he goes to his room and he finds a way to engage the man. He says, I just wanted to ask you, what's the answer to the riddle? And he says, oh, you're just another one of those idiots. He says, no, no, I, I realize it's gotta be. Tell me what is it? And he sees that as the man is working on, like advanced mathematics, like a, you know, equals mc squared kind of stuff.
He's got a teacup, a paper teacup, and it's dripping. And Patch Adam takes a little piece of tape, and he puts the tape, and he solves the problem with the leak. And he puts down the cup and the man sees that he's not focused on the problem, he doesn't just see a cranky old man, he really wants to know, what is it?
He says, you want to know the problem? He turns his chair, and he says, how many fingers do you see? And Patch Adams says, four. And then he puts his hand up, Naomi, and he says, Like, don't look at the fingers, look at me. And if you put your focus, like the camera on me, if you put your focus on me, the four fingers become eight fingers.
You stop seeing the fingers and focusing on the fingers, you look beyond the fingers. And he says that's the thing. When you focus on the problem, all you see is the problem.
[00:42:36] Naomi Zauderer: Yep.
[00:42:37] Uri Schneider: And you lose sight of what you really want on the other side. Yeah. So, love that. And I think that's such a relevant thing for all of us to think about.
All of us got problems, whether it's in our lives or whether it's all around us. If we just focus on the problems, that's all we see. We've got to focus on what's beyond the problem, and then we'll start to see solutions, even if the problem is still there. And then it starts to melt away a bit, doesn't it?
[00:43:01] Naomi Zauderer: Exactly. Yep. Who are you beyond this problem? Forget it.
[00:43:08] Uri Schneider: So, Naomi becomes a clinical social worker. What in the world?
[00:43:13] Naomi Zauderer: How did that
[00:43:14] Uri Schneider: happen? What drew you to that? And how did you kind of find your footing there?
[00:43:19] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah. So, I would say naturally, having um, made this Really huge shift in the way that I spoke and just to kind of like backtrack for sure for a moment and like the, the, the impact on that for me.
I'm just a guy on, but I'm
[00:43:40] Uri Schneider: in the backseat, you know? Yeah. , you're in, you're in the driver's seat.
[00:43:43] Naomi Zauderer: Thanks. So. That was really huge to see that kind of like dramatic shift in my speech for me felt miraculous, felt like the biggest deal of my life and felt like it just opened up tremendous possibilities for me.
How old
[00:44:02] Uri Schneider: are you? What's the memory?
[00:44:03] Naomi Zauderer: I was in ninth grade. Um, when I just started seeing like really, really dramatic changes, and I was the only one seeing these changes. It was friends were commenting on it, my, my family noticed.
[00:44:17] Uri Schneider: So we don't know if they thought of you as the weirdo before, but we know they started noticing.
Yes. Something's opening up with Naomi. Yeah. Something's opening up.
Yeah.
[00:44:25] Uri Schneider: What kind of things did they notice? Or what feedback do you remember? Was it like, oh wow, your speech is so mellifluous.
[00:44:31] Naomi Zauderer: Mm hmm. They didn't use that word, but they said like, wow, you're, you're speaking really fluently. I got comments from, from my family members, from friends, friends would comments that I was just really confident,
[00:44:48] Uri Schneider: confident
[00:44:49] Naomi Zauderer: that I was confident.
And I was really like, okay. Like kind of like happy and positive
[00:44:55] Uri Schneider: Sounds like the class clown.
[00:44:56] Naomi Zauderer: Yes Recovering that the younger self was definitely coming online was was starting to come back Yeah, and that really was um A huge part of that was, was like this work that I was doing in the Michael Williams program and exactly what you said, focusing on myself as a whole person and who I was and paying attention, having that self awareness.
Who are you as a friend? Who, who are you aside from stuttering? And that gave me tremendous confidence. And I can look back at myself in high school and be like, whoa, I was kind of at like the peak of like the most confident place in my life because I was really in it and I was working on it. And it was.
It was felt, um, if you ask other people who went to high school with me, they would be able to tell you that, like, wow, she was a confident kid. I
[00:45:55] Uri Schneider: want to stop you. Yeah. It could be, go for it or you could say pass. But I think it's, it's quite significant. That some people, some of the comments you got. I'm not interested in the people that said it, but more the comments.
Wow, you're speaking, you know, it's flowing. Your speech is flowing. The other comment was, wow, she's so confident. Those are two different things. Yeah. Are you saying that Naomi was coming back online? Naomi was back. There was no more like shell of Naomi trying to just Survive.
[00:46:26] Naomi Zauderer: Yep.
[00:46:27] Uri Schneider: You were back.
[00:46:28] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah.
[00:46:30] Uri Schneider: What do you think of that?
And which do you connect to? Like back then and now? Like, what did you, what did you feel when people said it then? Oh, wow, you're speaking smooth. Oh, wow. You seem so confident. Did it hit you different then? Does it hit you different now?
[00:46:45] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah. Um, I, I would say, yeah, it definitely hits me different now. And when you frame it in that way, I'm thinking that the latter definitely speaks to me more.
And I also remember at that time feeling really good that friends and people around me noticed that I was confident and that I was positive, that I was happy and I was able to be myself.
[00:47:09] Uri Schneider: Amazing. Yeah. So then ninth grade, you're not yet in social work school.
[00:47:14] Naomi Zauderer: Yes, but I definitely learned there. There was a lot that I learned in the realm of psychology and the realm of, um, our minds and kind of like the power of what changing our thoughts can can do, um, that opened my mind to the world of psychology.
And I was also very aware that I I, or at least I felt like I had access to like a certain like secret knowledge base that maybe other people didn't have, because they didn't have the same struggles that I had, and they kind of worked
[00:47:48] Uri Schneider: on their confidence. Oh, that was beautiful. Yeah. I had access to some secret knowledge other people didn't have, because
[00:47:53] Naomi Zauderer: Because I had stuttered and because I had worked on this.
[00:47:59] Uri Schneider: So the adversity unlocked something for you that became an asset that you thought other people might not have access to.
[00:48:05] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah.
[00:48:06] Uri Schneider: Profound.
[00:48:07] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah. It was pretty obvious to me when I was in high school that there were just things that I, Had learned about like the human minds and what we're capable of to see such to experience such a dramatic shift inside of myself was like, Whoa, how did I do that?
How is that even possible? How did I change my thoughts and change what I was focusing on? And that changed my personhood like that. That was just mind blowing for me. And it really increased my awareness of how powerful psychology and, and just like self work can be. So I would say that that was my first, um, like intro into the world from of, of psychology from like a first person experience.
[00:48:59] Uri Schneider: Unbelievable. And your experience is not Unique in the sense that it's not just you that had this unbelievably powerful experience and a feeling of wanting to share it Yeah, we're having we're recording this in January 2025 and there's this unbelievable story of a person that reached out January 2024 he's a rock bottom.
He said this thing is wrecking my life Emailed me at 1 a. m. He had a very prestigious position and now in January 2025 He's now the director of digital content at the White House. So like, from one end to the next. From wrecking my life to becoming like, the top of my game.
[00:49:38] Naomi Zauderer: And,
[00:49:39] Uri Schneider: uh, and wanting to share that.
Not being, you know, not worrying about that. It's amazing.
[00:49:42] Naomi Zauderer: It's huge. It's huge. When you experience a shift like that inside of yourself, there's just this feeling like anything in the world is possible. Like, whoa, if I went from there to there, then like, The like, life is an open door, right? There's like so many possibilities for me and that itself gave me such hopefulness and like confidence.
[00:50:03] Uri Schneider: So what are like top points that you find you're able to bring into the work you do with people to help them get through things, process things and get to the other side? You know, in the professional work that you do, informed by this incredibly powerful, inspiring personal experience.
[00:50:21] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah, so, I, I would say that, um, I had this incredible experience in high school, and this experience carried me through.
And then, um, just to give a little bit more about the, um, There was a sense of wanting to become a speech therapist and wanting to help others who stuttered and, um, in that process, I was in, um, I was an undergrad and went for a bachelor's in communication sciences and disorders. It was a really like a last minute switch that I decided that I wanted to, um, help people who stuttered from, from more of like a psychological perspective and took that route instead.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and what I realized, um, kind of as a continuation from the work that I was doing, that I had shifted a lot cognitively in my confidence and my hopefulness. Um, but maybe what I hadn't focused on as much was my, were the beliefs that I had learned about myself because of My stuttering and because of what, um, my environment around me taught me essentially about myself.
If, if, if that makes sense, it
[00:51:42] Uri Schneider: makes sense to me. But if you could give it some meat,
[00:51:46] Naomi Zauderer: yeah.
[00:51:46] Uri Schneider: Meaning like what was a belief that had kind of taken shape over those formative years and then how did it evolve?
[00:51:52] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah.
[00:51:52] Uri Schneider: Shift.
[00:51:53] Naomi Zauderer: Great. So what I realized is that even though externally I was projecting a lot of confidence and I was speaking smoothly, I was still carrying around a lot of shame inside.
And that was like this old shame that I had because I felt really embarrassed over and over and over again as a child. And instead of feeling like, oh, stuttering is embarrassing, when that happens over and over and over again, there's this sense of like, I myself am an embarrassment, or like, I'm shameful, or, um, Situations like friends, peers, classmates, cutting me off a lot when I would try to speak as a, as a child kind of forms a belief inside that unless I speak smoothly or fluently, I, I won't be heard or my words don't matter unless I'm speaking in a smooth way.
So what I didn't really realize until a little bit. Later, like post high school was that there were so many beliefs about myself, such as if I don't speak smoothly, then people won't want to listen to me. My, my, my words don't matter. Or like, I'm, I'm an embarrassment. I'm shameful. Um, things like that. And I, I can't.
Have then kind of done my own work and being able to help myself heal from those self limiting beliefs. So I would say a lot of the work that I do now is with a modality that's called sensory motor psychotherapy. Um, and it's a body based approach. One powerful thing that that modality does is it helps people overcome trauma.
And another thing, um, and a way the way that modality can be helpful is helping people identify what their self limiting beliefs are, what are the beliefs are, and how they Beliefs that they've been carrying around from the time that they were young that continue to come up and be present in their lives and holds them back from being all that they can be.
[00:54:11] Uri Schneider: Well, we could go on. Yeah, we will go on. But to hit on a couple last points that I would feel remiss if we didn't. What would be something that your today self would wish to say to your pre bat mitzvah 11 year old junior high school self?
[00:54:34] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah, I think just touching on what we were talking about before is you're so much more than you're stuttering.
It's, it's sad to me when I look back and think about how much stuttering really filled my self perception, fueled my self perception. And, uh, And I wish that I knew everything else that I was because I think all of those things that I was describing to you as like a kid were actually still there. They were latent, they were dormant, but it was because I was really doing that kind of focus, right?
I just put my hand up in front of my face to indicate those like, Looking at the four fingers on my hands focus as opposed to who is this whole person? Who am I? What kind of friend am I? Um, am, am I a creative analytical kind of person, right? There was so much more to me at that time. And yeah, maybe I would just say like you, you were so much more than you're stuttering.
And. And I want you to know that.
[00:55:42] Uri Schneider: If you could, if you could offer something for parents, or teachers, or bosses, you know? Yeah. What would be something you'd wish that people could put into practice? What would be a tip that would make it, make a difference?
[00:55:57] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah. From
[00:55:58] Uri Schneider: your experience, but also as a professional.
[00:56:00] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah. To
[00:56:00] Uri Schneider: help people going through this.
[00:56:01] Naomi Zauderer: So two things come to mind. One is the patience and understanding and really showing that child you are so much more than this, right? Like, what are you focusing on? What are you accentuating for that child? And let's give them a robust sense of who they are. And the second thing is show them that what they're saying matters, not how they're saying it.
And you're listening to the content and you're paying attention. You're not going, oh, you were really smooth, right? And that, that, that takes the focus, that puts the focus on the speech, as opposed to the content, which is what we want people to notice us for, what's going on inside.
[00:56:45] Uri Schneider: Thank you so much. This has been unbelievable.
Um, and I'm sure you've enjoyed this conversation. I have. Uh, you and anyone who's listening. Yeah. Um, it's been like, such a treat and everything, and more than I could have wished for. So thank you for For doing this and for being so open and vulnerable and also sharing such gems real gems reflection Totally.
[00:57:10] Naomi Zauderer: Yeah, this this was this is such a pleasure for me such a treat I so appreciate you and in the work that you do and Bringing all of this to the world. So
[00:57:20] Uri Schneider: there's more to come. There's more we can do together. We're always learning and evolving Thanks to you and thanks to so many other teachers and reminds me of something that parents often ask is how do I give my?
My kid confidence. How do I help them have self esteem? And i'm thinking of what naomi said and she said, um You know, I came back online. I asked them, what were you like at five? Full of spunk. Class clown. Friendly. Open. Energetic. And effervescent. Connecting with people. Bringing people into the circle. And then something happened.
So, I believe that kids are born with self esteem. Kids are born with self confidence and self worth. We can do things to protect that. To protect that, to put it in some veneer, to solidify it before something happens that takes it away from them. But kids don't need an injection or an introduction to self esteem.
They just need it to be protected and nurtured. And as adults, if you're asking yourself, Well, I don't know what I was like when I was younger. I've been doing this facade for a very long time. Think about the things you really enjoy doing. Do you enjoy going to social events and being with people or playing team sports?
Then you enjoy people, and you should enjoy the social connections that are waiting for you. Are you a person that enjoys curling up with a book? Maybe you're more towards the introvert, and maybe that's where your delight and your jam is going to be. Now, people can operate on every side of the spectrum, and somewhere in the middle, we all have a bit of both.
But I think it's important to identify who are you. What's your sphere of excellence? Where do you do best? Make yourself comfortable in that space and be good enough everywhere else. So thanks for listening. Thanks for joining us. This has been amazing and it's just the beginning. Thank
[00:58:59] Naomi Zauderer: you. Yes.
[00:59:00] Uri Schneider: We're back online.
[00:59:01] Naomi Zauderer: Absolutely.
[00:59:02] Uri Schneider: Thank you.
[00:59:03] Naomi Zauderer: Excited for that.