#45 The Invisibility of Stuttering with Dr. Hope Gerlach
“...stuttering adds value into the world...”
BIO
Hope Gerlach, Ph.D., CCC-SLP is an assistant professor at Western Michigan University. Her research focuses on identifying and reducing disparities in quality of life between people who stutter and typically fluent speakers. Currently, she is studying the role of stigma and identity constructs in psychological distress among adults who stutter. She has been actively involved in support organizations for people who stutter and has worked as a speech-language pathologist at several summer camps for youth who stutter.
Listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts or your favorite podcast platform. You can also watch the interview on YouTube.
EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS
0:00-8:40: Introductions, bringing research to life
8:40- 14:00: "Neurological glitch", invisible disabilities and losing control when you are about to stutter
14:00-19:07: measuring stuttering, the impact of it being invisible
19:26-28:29: Charles Van Riper legacy at Western Michigan University and the "stuttering tax"
28:29-33:09: More on the stuttering tax and managing the stigma
34:00- 42:40: concealment and severity
42:55- 55:16: Vanderbilt research (explicit and implicit biases from SLPs about stuttering), maybe a hardwired way of thinking that fluent speech is better
55:42- End: being an ally, invisible component, not everyone is struggling, closing remarks
RESOURCES
The value in connecting with other people who stutter
Stuttering and Invisibility article for kids
MORE QUOTES
“ If someone wants me to use that word and they stutter, I'm gonna honor their request because it's about honoring the person who has the experience.” - Dr. Hope Gerlach
“We can help people who stutter feel like they have more choices when they experience discrimination” - Dr. Hope Gerlach
TRANSCRIPTION:
Hope Gerlach: I might, someone might prefer the word stutterer and I might use the word person who stutters.
And if they say like, that's not my preference, or maybe vice versa, I don't tend to use the word stutterer because I don't stutter myself. But I also, if someone wants me to use that word and they stutter, I'm gonna honor their request because it's about honoring the person who has the experience. And so, um, it's not about
Being wrong. It's about expecting that you need to grow, um, and being open to that feedback. And I just think that, like, this doesn't have to be, um, like a us versus them, like a person who stutters first per person who doesn't, um, or like an SLPs first people who stutter. Um, like I see it as, like, when we're talking about ableism, it's hard to talk about.
It's hard to talk about and I see it as an us with them. Um, whether that's SLPs or related to stuttering, like when we talk. Um, ableism. And when I get some examples of ableism are, um, that people who stutter my experience would be, um, like being cut off, like when someone's speaking to them or being mocked or being discriminated at the workplace, which some of our research has shown that people that can happen.
Um, it's not dusting that under the rug.
Yeah. And I think as SLPs, like it's easy to just like kind of sweep that under the rug, because it's hard, it's hard to talk about when a person experiences discrimination and it can feel like, what can you do about it? Like, it's easier to be like, well, we can focus on what you can do. Um, and I think there's certainly a place for that.
Like how can we help you have more choices when you encounter something like a microaggression. Full blown after discrimination or just a SNI, like a snarky remark. Um, how can we help you feel more? Yeah. Like ready to manage that moment.
Uri Schneider: Yeah. Yeah.
Mm-hmm
mm-hmm
mm-hmm well, thanks.
Mm-hmm mm-hmm mm-hmm.
yeah.
Hope Gerlach: Yeah. Um, so what can we do? Um, this is partly what the paper with Chris, it's a, it's a clinical tutorial. So it's all about what can SLPs do to interrupt this and what I was saying. And then I'll get back to what you were talking about is that, you know, we can help people who stutter feel like they have more choices when they experience, um, discrimination.
And it's not something they just have to like. be helpless too. And I think that's a role for us, but I do think a role for us is also helping society better understand stuttering. And I think some ways you can do that. The best thing you can do, I think is to, um, speak up like, and assume like when someone says something bad about stuttering that would contribute to stuttering the stigma of stuttering.
For me, I try not to make assumptions about their character. Like I try not to make assumptions that they're a bad person. I just separate that. And instead I'm like what they said it can't, it can't sit like this. If I don't say something, this is gonna contribute to, um, further stigmatization. So an example might be like a coworker saying like, oh yeah, that person was stuttering really bad today.
This idea that that contributes, like that's those, those are the comments that they're so small, but they, they shape how we see stuttering. You can say, you know, oh, like, You could, there's so many ways you could respond to that. You could be like, oh, like I disagree. Like I was so happy to hear, like what he had to say.
You can express that you disagree, you can also kind of reframe it. You can be like, oh yeah, I noticed he was stuttering more, but like, he was really excited. Um, To share his point. And it was a really good point and just stepping in, um, sharing good information about stuttering, um, and really just like de-centering the listener, which is where I see kind of the future of our field going is centering the person who stutters.
Um, it's not a, doesn't have to be all about what society hears. It can very much be shifted to what the person experiences. Um, and so it doesn't matter if we. Fluent speech or stutter speech. And some people would disagree. I might disagree with my own self on that comment on another day. Um, but just always trying to bring it back to the person and, um, Yuri, I will share.
I have a comic that I did with Elizabeth Whistler about allyship, um, and how to be an ally in the moment. Um, and I'm, don't call my, I'm not an allyship expert. Um, this was, um, generated with the person who stutters, like I'm still learning. I will always still be learning. Um, but hopefully that can get you some tips.
Um, and then you're, I feel like, mm.
Uri Schneider: Yeah, I was
Hope Gerlach: just gonna say, I think we should save the disclosure chat. I think that could be a whole nother chat. Another time. I would come back, uh, definitely for a part two. Um, but what I,
Uri Schneider: geez.
Hope Gerlach: Yeah. I just wanted to end by just again, getting back to like the individuality of the experience of stuttering. Um, my work focuses on people who stutter, who are struggling and how to reduce that struggle. Um, but I just wanna highlight, there's a lot of people who stutter, who aren't struggling and we shouldn't assume that everyone who stutters are fighting these battles that I've been talking about.
Um, and that I also wanna just drop the idea of stutter gain. Um, if you haven't, um, You could do a quick Google search of Chris Constantino and stutter gain. And it's this idea that there are lots of good things you can gain from living with stuttering. Um, some people who stutter. Yeah.
Uri Schneider: Yeah.
Hmm.
Mm-hmm . Yeah.
Hope Gerlach: Um, but yeah, so I just, you know, like want people to understand that stuttering adds and adds value to the world. Um, like it, it gives us an opportunity to be a better listener. Um, it gives us an opportunity to connect on a deeper level. Um, and so I don't want people to walk away thinking that, um, stuttering is always boiled down to hardship and challenge.
Um, it, there's a lot of really beautiful things that can come from stuttering too. It's very nuanced. Um, and I think that's really all I have just wanna say thanks for having me. And it's been a really nice conversation.
Uri Schneider: Thank.
Mm-hmm mm-hmm mm-hmm
mm-hmm
mm-hmm
mm.
mm-hmm
Mm. Mm,
thank you. Thank you. We good.