#44 Free Falling and Feeling Free with Derek Mitchell
“You gotta be real about what you want. And what you’re ready to do to go get it.”
BIO
Derek Mitchell is an IT Analyst for the Atlanta County Public schools and a person who stutters. He is a local chapter leader for the NSA (National Stuttering Association) and is involved with Toastmasters, an online club for public speaking.
Listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts or your favorite podcast platform. You can also watch the interview on YouTube.
EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS
9:00 - 26:42 My mental health journey
26:42 - 37:00 Toastmasters was a game-changer
37:00 - 55:15 Still uncomfortable with social situations
55:15 - 1:06:17 The importance of embracing discomfort
RESOURCE LIST
MORE QUOTES
“Everything's on the table at this point in my life because I have done that work to face all those demons and to face all the hurt and things that I've dealt with. So now, it doesn't have a hold over me.” - Derek Mitchell
“ This [Therapy] is something that is continual, you know, I've not been in therapy the entire time, but people need maintenance. People are like cars, almost. We need maintenance, retooling, and refueling. - Derek Mitchell
TRANSCRIPTION:
Uri Schneider: Good morning. What a treat? My name is Uri Schneider coming at you live not far, not far from Brooklyn, which, uh, last night was, uh, visiting Atlanta where my man Derek is hailing from. Let's just say Kyrie was dropping buckets. Um, so Brooklyn is looking good, but Atlanta, listen, they got killer Mike, but.
Uri Schneider: Killer. Mike's got nothing on DAP or Derek. All right. So it is an honor and a privilege and you are all in for a treat. This man has the spirit. He has the words he has the lived experience. That is just truly the charisma, the energy to be in the presence of this guy will come through on zoom, even with his virtual background.
Uri Schneider: And, um, there's nothing, I would love more, as we said before we came on, then she just. Get together and eat some steaks kosher of course, but, um, It's uh, it's an honor to have you Derek. I'll just give a quick bio and then you can, you can tell everybody what you're all about and what you feel would be fitting.
Uri Schneider: Derek is a freelance consultant. He's a former it analyst for the Atlanta County public schools. And of course he's also a person who stutters. So he knows it from the inside. He is a local chapter leader for the NSA, the national stuttering association, and he's involved in Toastmasters. Um, And we will get to hear more about that.
Uri Schneider: I think that's a really valuable thing for people to know about and learn about. Um, if you're watching this, please comment, share it. We'll get their story just further out there to the people that need to hear it. And I also just want to give a shout out to my other friends in Georgia, for sure. I'm going to leave somebody out, but down in Atlanta, Georgia, uh, we've got Carl herder and Tim McKenzie who, before me.
Uri Schneider: Uh, hosted Derek for some Epic podcast. So you can check that out. And also Derek has a wealth of stuff out there on the internet, Derek. Thanks for taking the time. It's great to see you, buddy.
derek Mitchell: Yeah. Um, thanks for the invite. It's um, it's good to talk to you. Okay,
Uri Schneider: awesome. What would you like to share? That's kind of like behind the bio, the man, the legend, what would you feel would be.
Uri Schneider: It's important to add to who you are, what you're all about, what matters to you?
derek Mitchell: Hmm. Well, I just recently, um, I, um, I just turned 40 in December and I really didn't think that it would have that big of an impact on me. I just thought, you know, for years, you know, would be just, um, um, another year, just another.
derek Mitchell: Number, but, you know, I, I, I wouldn't call it a midlife, um, um, prices, but more of the refocusing. Um, um, um, it's what I'm kind of in the midst of, at this point in time. And typically, um, whenever I go through any kind of transition stuttering, um, definitely plays. A role in that. So now, you know, kind of figuring out, you know, what life past 40 looks like and what role stuttering, um, will play in that journey and just thinking about, um, um, Um, just thinking about, um, what stuttering means to me at, um, um, at this point in my life and ultimately, um, um, what I wanted to mean in, um, in teen years and, um, kinda to, to, to a point where it's becoming, um, I wouldn't say smaller.
derek Mitchell: Part of my life, but less significant, you know, as far as the impact it has, you know, um, it's to it's to a point now where, um, my involvement in the community and my friendships in the community are so much bigger, um, part of my life and, um, and have much.
derek Mitchell: Um, have much more of an impact the stuttering does.
Uri Schneider: Wow. Okay. Well, first of all, it's been a privilege to be with you for a few of the pages of your story so far, and there's no doubt that the best is yet to come. It's just unwritten as of yet. So happy birthday. Um, I wish I wish I, you know, I knew you hit the 40 Mark and I know for me that was a big one too.
Uri Schneider: Um, But if I knew it was so recent, I would have shown up with like a birthday cake or birthday hat, or I would have sung. I could sing happy birthday if you want.
derek Mitchell: Well, I mean, you know, um, I can pass on that, boom, but the cake is always good.
Uri Schneider: Velvet chocolate. What's your, what's your, what's your choice of a cake birthday cake.
Uri Schneider: If you could have any,
derek Mitchell: um, a
Uri Schneider: cheesecake dude. You go in with the, with the regular cheesecake or the caramel or like what kind of cheesecake strawberries on top strawberries on top. Let me tell you in New York city, I'm just going to keep bringing it on since the Brooklyn nuts. We're bringing it on your Atlanta Hawks last night, SNS cheesecake.
Uri Schneider: If you ever get to New York, okay. Or I'm going to bring for you SNS cheesecake. If you're from New York, from the Bronx, you go for SNS cheesecake and the factory. Not far from where I grew up. So that's, that's, that's, it's thick, baked, cheesecake thick. I mean, this stuff you gotta, you got to scrape it off the roof of your mouth.
Uri Schneider: It's so sick. You know what I'm
derek Mitchell: saying now? So now let me ask you this. So is that where the locals get cheesecake from an M and M? Um, um, and Jr's is just for.
Uri Schneider: So I knew you were going to say juniors. Now you noticed, I said the Bronx, if you're from Brooklyn. Okay. Brooklyn, they go with juniors. I think juniors is coming out of Brooklyn. Now the good news for us, us, my tribe. It's both kosher. To my knowledge, they both carry the kosher certification, so you can enjoy you and I could sit down and I think we could pound, you know, one cheesecake between us or should we get to sure.
Uri Schneider: Yeah.
derek Mitchell: Um, yeah, I'm trying to lose weight. So as to start with, um, with, um, just one and then see where it goes from there.
Uri Schneider: Okay. So, so, so Mark my word, I will make every effort at our next meeting that's conference, whatever I'm bringing the cheesecake and a pair of sneakers. So we'll do the cheesecake and then we'll do a workout.
derek Mitchell: Uh, you can do a workout, but I'm taking a nap after
Uri Schneider: listen sometimes. What was that Cosby time? Right? Like sometimes I get crazy ideas doing like a workout. I just make sure to lie down on the couch till the thought passes,
derek Mitchell: you know?
Uri Schneider: So, so I loved what you said because the idea of like, um, Reflecting back on, on what stuttering has meant to you in your life story to date, and then thinking forward, I never heard anyone think like ten-year plan, uh, or visioning, like what role the stuttering play in my, in my future story.
Uri Schneider: And it, it reminds me of an exercise we do in this transcending, stuttering, this online course, and the cohort experience that we have with teens and adults, one of the exercises write a letter. To your stutter. And it kind of, the springboard that I offer is something like, you know, Hey, dear stutter, growing up, you were kind of like that annoying kid in class that never left me alone.
Uri Schneider: And I couldn't get enough distance between us and you always showed up. But the most inconvenient times, well, let me tell you something through the years and see where it goes, you know, like see where people take it. So what's your stuttering story till, you know, for the past 39 years, let's say, what, what would you say.
derek Mitchell: Um, it started off rough. Um, uh, you know, just to be honest with you, childhood was, was pretty rough. Um, a lot of loneliness, a lot of the bullying, um, physical and verbal, um, a lot of misunderstandings, um, um, missed opportunities. Um, W a, a lot of regret. Um, definitely a lot of grit, um, and really that, you know, that, that trend really didn't start to turn until I was.
derek Mitchell: Um, to about nine years ago. Um, and nine years ago is when is, when is, when is when is when I got accepted into graduate school. And at that point in time, like my self-esteem was almost. Was, um, you know, was almost non-existent and I knew that in order to be successful in that program, that I couldn't go into it with that level of self-esteem because I just, um, I wouldn't make it.
derek Mitchell: And, um, the step I took was not really to address my stuttering, but to address the impact that it had on me. And, um, that's when I started seeing. Um, a therapist and that was probably one of the best decisions I've made. It, it, it might be, um, um, um, um, um, the best decision that I've ever made.
Uri Schneider: Oh, that's because you haven't tasted SNS cheese yet.
derek Mitchell: Okay. Well then I will put in, in, um, um, Um, I will put it in, um, and, um, um, and asterisk by this, um, statement
Uri Schneider: to date to date, that was the best decision, best decision is you and me sitting down with, from cheesecake and not sitting on the couch, we're going to go for it. But, um, yeah, so I don't want to, you know, I don't want to go into places you don't want to go on the other hand, I think it's helpful meeting someone like you and sharing that on a story.
Uri Schneider: That's what people want to hear, like the honesty, the real stuff. And so if you want to share a little bit of that contrast, like till nine years ago, what that was like, and maybe some of that rough stuff, because I think through sharing that there's that openness and honesty, and also for you to reflect, but also for everyone here who may be in one of those spots to kind of see that from the dark tough times, you can rise up, you know, there is another side and sometimes it feels like there's no light at the end of the tunnel.
Uri Schneider: But I think you're living Testament of that. So, you know, if you want to shed a little light on that, or if you just want to take it from that point forward, that decision and what that meant and what changed, I leave it to you.
derek Mitchell: Yeah. And, um, just so you know, everything, you know, is, you know, is, um, is, um, is, um, is, um, is, um, is on the table and cool.
derek Mitchell: And this is actually going to be something that I'll get to, is that the reason why. Everything's on the table at this point in my life is because I have done that work to, you know, to face all those demons and to face, um, all the hurt and things that I've dealt with. So now, you know, it just really doesn't, um, it doesn't have a hold over me.
derek Mitchell: And so I can talk about any in unknowing, um, um, any, any and everything. Um, at this point, because it doesn't have a hold on me. And, um, being in therapy is a big part of that because, you know, I really had to in just so you know, you know, I started nine years ago and then, you know, up until this point in time, um, I was seeing a therapist.
derek Mitchell: On and off. So it's nothing that I just did. And, you know, in a few months or in a year, and it was done, you know, this is something that is continual, you know, I've been in therapy no, the entire time, but you know, people need maintenance. People, you know, people are like cars, almost. We need maintenance, you know, and we need maintenance and retooling.
derek Mitchell: Um, refueling. And so for me, um, every now and then going to, um, to see, um, a therapist is part of that. But when I started initially, yeah, go ahead.
Uri Schneider: I just want to riff and highlight amplify. To miss that. I think you just debunked, number one, people have a fantasy that if they pay someone a whole load of money for two days, they're going to get a quick fix and it's, you know, easy come easy, go.
Uri Schneider: Same thing like that. So change doesn't happen overnight. And at the same time, nobody should be in a therapeutic experience that doesn't feel like it's going anywhere or feels like it's not the right fit. I think a lot of people think therapy, Oh, it's just a thing. It's a process. And I'm just committed to a process.
Uri Schneider: I have no idea what's going on. I'm not supposed to feel like there's something in the middle. I think what Derek is describing is, you know, at a healthy, a healthy balance of understanding. It takes work. You can't do it alone. Uh, so having a professional guide can be super helpful, having a community of support of people, your people, whether it's your family, whether it's other people who stutter support community, get to that too.
Uri Schneider: I'm sure other things like Toastmasters fueling up having support, but I just think to just amplify and emphasize any parents or any speech therapists or teachers. There are people out there selling quick fixes and easy come easy go. And very often there's like a very dramatic experience in that quick intensive experience.
Uri Schneider: Or you look at these before-after videos and wow. You know, it's like exactly what you want to be, and exactly what you see is what you want, but to recognize, you know, You need something that's going to carry you and find in the right way to kind of engage and then coast and then check back in and knowing you have that, just knowing you have that can be so helpful.
Uri Schneider: It doesn't mean you have to be stuck in the same. You know, we'll but on the contrary, it's a place to kind of revisit the degree that you need. I think that's an untold story about the frequency and the journey of therapy. People think it's like six months or 12 months or two days. It should be something that grows with you.
Uri Schneider: And at different times you need different things and you might switch therapists, but, but it's a process of growing and changing your needs and change, but you always benefit. From getting the help you feel you need and that you deserve, and it should feel helpful. It should feel good if it doesn't feel helpful, it doesn't feel good.
Uri Schneider: Get out
derek Mitchell: of there. Exactly, exactly. And, and, you know, therapy can look different at different times. You know, when I first started, I just needed, you know, a place to really unburden myself from all of those negative and anal, um, harsh experiences that I had in my childhood. Um, I needed tools to be able to know too.
derek Mitchell: Talk with, with, um, with my parents about things that, you know, you know, that they didn't do quite right. Um, but you know, at other times being a part of the NSA, that was my therapy because once I, you know, started to on deal with those things from my past, I needed people who could know who, who, um, who could relate.
derek Mitchell: To my experiences. Um, at one point in time, Toastmasters was, um, was a form of therapy because I needed to get people who could encourage me while I was facing my fears with, um, with speaking. Um, and you know, and, and you, and in on people who are dealing, um, with the same fear for different reasons. So therapy can really take different forms at different times in your life, just depending on what that need was.
derek Mitchell: Um, the last time I was in speech, quit.
Uri Schneider: Doug joining us from Houston was asking what type you referred to it as therapy. And it is kind of interesting what, uh, so the NSA and community is like support community with national stuttering association. Toastmasters can all be supportive and therapeutic in their own.
Uri Schneider: Right. Doug was asking, when you talk about therapy, are you referring to what kind of therapy or types of therapy? Yeah. Well,
derek Mitchell: um, Initially, when I was talking to him about therapy, I would let you talking about sitting on the therapist, couch, licensed and trained, you know, to, you know, to help equip me, you know, to deal with my issues, but, you know, therapy things will.
derek Mitchell: Um, but, but, um, in general, when I say therapy, I mean, things that have a therapeutic, um, Effect on you like the, like the, um, like the, for me, the NSA has a therapeutic effect on me. Um, being in Toastmasters has a therapeutic
derek Mitchell: effect on me. So, you know, different things, you know, I use different. Things storm, um, um, to have that, um, um, that therapeutic effect, whether it's an actual therapist or a community or. Or a support group or just people who, um, who happened to, to, um, um, um, um, to share and, um, and, um, and, um, and, um, and, um, and, um, and activity with.
Uri Schneider: So if I could just dive in there for a moment there is that all right? Sure. Go for it. I think you're such a wonderful demonstration of the tapestry of who we are is a composition of many different inputs, right? It's the home we grew up in. It's the experiences we had as kids. Uh, it's the relationships we formed, uh, and different things that we went through through growing up and living and the school of hard knocks and whatever school other schools we went to.
Uri Schneider: But I think Doug's question and what you were just sharing, just struck me and in all the conversations I've had, I knew there would be new things here, and this is it. One already the therapist. So it sounds like was there a psychotherapist involved there? Someone who was like a psychotherapist mental health professional, and also was there like a speech therapist along the attorney?
Uri Schneider: Yes or no? Yes. I was going to ask you this. If you may be, could reflect what's something that 40 year olds reflective Derek thinking about the next. Episode in the trilogy or whatever it is, you know, decade, um, the next episode, um, what does Derek today bring that is attributed back to something you gained through this therapy experience or from that speech therapy experience or from the NSA or from Toastmasters?
Uri Schneider: If you could like unpack for us, like, are there things you points you're like, had I not participated in Toastmasters? I wouldn't have this ability or this feeling about myself. And if I didn't do this, maybe you could touch on that.
derek Mitchell: Sure. Oh yeah. Um, there's a lot there.
derek Mitchell: Just being able to sit here and talk to you. Like this is something that I couldn't have done 10 years ago and just think about, you know, just everything that this one conversation encompasses, you know, for a person who's. The others first, I'm sitting here and I'm looking at that blinking record button live on Facebook 10 years ago.
derek Mitchell: I, the, um, the anxiety, um, um, um, um, put a folded me and I wouldn't have been able to even get through 10 minutes of, um, Of this conversation. And that was because, you know, being able to, and, you know, and this is something that really goes back to two, um, Toastmasters and, you know, on a consistent weekly basis having to get up in front of an audience and speak, um, In some capacity and, um, being, and being more comfortable speaking in front of people and being, um, more comfortable with my own voice.
derek Mitchell: Um, this also goes back to the last time I was in speech therapy, um, which, you know, she did something much more for me than just speech therapy. She was the first person to tell me that there's nothing wrong with having a stutter. I was 33 years old when, um, when I heard that, um, the first time or, or it was the first time that I could ever really accept it.
derek Mitchell: But th but that was the first time that, you know, that thought of it's okay to have a stutter even took hold. And I was like, wait, what does that mean? Um, Um, going back to my first time in therapy and being able to, um, unpack all those childhood experiences up until that point in time. And, um, this is when I was 31.
derek Mitchell: Up to that point in time, you couldn't even say the worst stutter in my presence. Just that word alone had a physical effect on me. That felt something like. Um, people say my blood, um, I got so mad that, um, that my, um, that my blood was boiling. That's how it physically felt. Um, um, up to that point in time, if somebody even said the word stutter around me is that I would instantly get upset because I, because there was so much baggage and.
derek Mitchell: So much baggage and so many negative experiences that came along with that word that it was, um, that was much more than only a word.
Uri Schneider: I just want to tell you I'm getting a little teary-eyed and I got my, the hair on my back, which is getting to be more and more as I get older standing on, on edge. This is awesome.
Uri Schneider: And I want to just share the love that's coming in from around the country and around the world. But. Yeah, alpha D that's what Tom Sharfstein said, Tom Scharfstein says, and Doug is here and Amy's here. And of course I forgot to acknowledge my other favorite persons in Georgia, Dominique Kennedy, um, and Amy and so many others.
Uri Schneider: But what I would love to say is right now for Derek and for anybody watching Derek is describing that visceral feeling of looking at the blinking light that we're live, um, nine years ago, this is the kind of thing that he would have. Not been able to do it from what he just said. We can create a very powerful experiencial shift for him and for anyone watching, not that he needs it, but drop a like, and I mean this because to recognize the courage for someone who stutters to spend 31 years, if I did the math, right?
Uri Schneider: Yes, 31 years, this was like off limits. And to recognize that the man you're looking at is literally a superhero. The man has, has faced as he described those demons and, and fears and things that held them back boundaries. Right. And he's really a walking, living demonstration. The reason I get teary-eyed and I get shivers is like, I'm inspired.
Uri Schneider: I'm inspired by Derek. I'm inspired by people who stutter. And I think this opportunity to be so real Derek and sharing with others who are in that place, that you were in nine years ago. And in the place you stand today on the cusp of the next chapter, um, it really gives people living experiential proof more than any textbook or any professional could preach.
Uri Schneider: You know, you are walking, living proof of what one man can do when you just dig in and say, no Moss. I can't go on like that anymore. I got to turn a new page and I'm ready and, uh, and dipping into all these different, you know, resources. I just think this is so. Valuable. So your comments, your likes, your shares.
Uri Schneider: Somebody else needs to hear this because this guy is certainly one of my heroes starting.
derek Mitchell: I appreciate that.
Uri Schneider: Yeah. So you were sharing about, um, Toastmasters kind of gave you that weekly experience of getting verbal on a, on a, on a habitual basis and kind of like doing it, just doing, doing the talking thing and the speech therapist who told you. There nothing objectively bad or wrong to stutter. And that, at that point you were able to hear that.
Uri Schneider: Um, and I don't know if you were going to touch on, you know, the NSA or the, and then the other therapy you talked about also. Yeah. But just anywhere you want it to go with that. And I think Toastmasters is under utilized. You could talk more about that. It go with, go with what you want to share.
derek Mitchell: Toastmasters was a game changer because at that point in time, um, Trying to see, I had been involved in the NSA for two years. And so, um, I had that community and that support around me, the local chapter, um, was doing pretty well. So I, so, you know, I had, um, that monthly opportunity to, um, Um, to meet with other people who, who stutter in person and, you know, um, and to do things.
derek Mitchell: So, um, a lot of things were in place at that point in time, but there was still that issue of either speaking in a meeting at work or just, um, speaking in front of an audience that was still something that was really tough. And. Through a catalyst is when I kinda got a promotion at work. Um, one of the project managers had left the company and, you know, they didn't want to hire anybody.
derek Mitchell: So they said, look, let's just, this is give Derek her. Um, Her projects to, to, um, to, um, take over at that point in time had no training as a project manager, um, had, had no had no, um, no expertise had no leadership skills really. And these were really technically complex high level. Projects dealing with people who were 20 years older, you know, with years of experience.
derek Mitchell: So it was very intimidating, even if I didn't stutter it, you know? Um, um, um, it would have been very intimidating, but. Put stuttering on top of that and having to lead meetings and to try and, you know, talk with people who are more experienced, um, was tough. So a friend that I made at work turned, um, she, um, she, um, and, um, I didn't know this, but she was a leader of, um, um, um, Toastmasters at my old job and she pretty much.
derek Mitchell: Pushed. And I don't want to say nag, but, but, but you know, she pushed and pushed them, wore me down until I joined. And within six months I had conquered a lifetime of fear. Um, within six months I went from being afraid of speaking in front of a group of eight people. To, um, storm to being in a speech contest in front of a ballroom full of people.
derek Mitchell: It meant the world to me. Um, I felt, I
Uri Schneider: think, I think, I think some people think like vanity metrics these days and you know, like, yeah, I loved it. I was in front of a room of a thousand people and they all were worshiping me, but that's not what it meant to you. What did it mean to you? That moment? Bring yourself, bring us if you can.
Uri Schneider: People are, are, are absolutely. Eating up, what you're sharing. Um, one person here is so grateful. You brought in the side of mental health. You're widening the lens. Your story is already touching a lot of people right now. And we'll end the podcast. Everybody check that out. But what did it mean to you? Can you bring us into the feelings that kind of came over you when you stood there that day in front of that ballroom?
derek Mitchell: Um, it felt similar. So, uh, I'm a bit of an adrenaline. Junkie
Uri Schneider: cheesecake and adrenaline junkie we're in.
derek Mitchell: So, you know, the feeling, it felt like the first time I jumped out of an airplane, that's the kind of high,
Uri Schneider: Oh, Oh, I, I CA I, yeah. Okay. We're not doing that when we get together. No, no, no. I'll get you off the couch, but you ain't put me on an airplane with no seats, but that was the level of
derek Mitchell: high I felt because, because.
derek Mitchell: Okay. This fear had had such a grip on me my entire life. I mean, anytime I had to introduce myself on a conference call, I was afraid any time I had to. Um, go to someone new at work who I didn't know and ask them a question I was afraid. So it was just fear, just this constant fear, every single day of my life.
derek Mitchell: And I just got so sick of it and to get to a point where I didn't feel that anymore. I mean, it, it just felt like freedom. Um, dusty, it felt like it felt like freedom and, and, and, and, and it, it was the best feeling in the world. Like that feeling became my drug. That was my high was, um, was getting, um, um, in front of a captive audience and holding their, their, um, their, um, their attention and causing an emotional, um, response reaction.
derek Mitchell: That was my high and, and it is really hard to, um, to really put it into words, but it felt like freedom. We
Uri Schneider: feel it, man. It's beyond words. It's, it's in the waves coming out of you through your voice and through so much. And again, I just want to reflect at all sincere Derek. And I think so many would agree with me.
Uri Schneider: You could drop a, like if you do the. The feeling and the experience didn't include the word fluency. So it wasn't, it wasn't about, you know, it was perfectly fluent. I hit all my targets. The feeling was getting up there and connecting with people and sharing the message that burns inside of you. And feeling the freedom of speech and that, and that became your drug.
Uri Schneider: I think that's profound. I think that's something for people to reflect on. And as we listened to Derek and I mean this from the bottom of my heart, you know, people ask me. It's funny, you know, as a speech therapist, people who stutter have all kinds of ideas, what other people are thinking when they talk to them, you know, person who stutters wondering, what does that girl think of me?
Uri Schneider: What does that guy think? I mean, or what is my teacher? What's my classmate. I'm a speech therapist. Let me tell you what happens at any social gathering. When my wife and I are meeting somebody, it's like, Oh, what do you do this? Guy's like, you know, I'm an accountant. I'm an it guy. I do computers. I do sales.
Uri Schneider: Oh, what do you do? I'm a speech therapist. Is it either as a conversation stopper because everybody's got something they're self-conscious about with their speech. If it's stuttering, if it's their ours, their SS, their childhood memories of speech therapy, it's the conversation stopper, or I'm like a stuttering magnet as is my dad.
Uri Schneider: It's like. All of a sudden, you say speech therapy. It's like, Oh my gosh, you know, can I ask you something? And people start pouring out stories and more often than what the statistics and, you know, prevalence would suggest stories of stuttering just come out left and right. And the stories of stuttering are always about the fear, the holding back.
Uri Schneider: And that's not to say stuttering is caused by those things. But when you ask people to talk about what it feels like. They don't say my, my lips hurt. My tongue hurt. Most people who stuttered, don't say that they talk about the incessant fear and anticipation and feeling. They could say so much more. They are burning to say so much more.
Uri Schneider: And at the same time they're terrified or it's so effortful or they are so misperceived or under estimated. And I think what you just talked about just comes through so powerfully. Um, how do you keep that state there or Ketty keep that you said it became your drug? I would imagine, you know, hitting that and keeping that and sustaining that is not a linear set it and forget it like that was it.
Uri Schneider: That was a breakthrough moment. You had it for the rest of your life, you know, steady. Can you share anything about some of like what you experience as the setbacks and how you readjust and re recalibrate yourself to get yourself into that place?
derek Mitchell: Like any drug, you know, the first time, you know, there's no time like that first one.
derek Mitchell: So of course, you know, you know, that's, um, diminishing returns. And so at some point, you know, you know, that became, you know, just kind of. Normalizes that, you know, okay, I'm going to go give a speech on Friday audience. Okay. This is, you know, it became, which is the good thing, which is a good thing, because, you know, when you, because when you talked about, um, um, having a, um, um, if you could plan and you know, my future plan for my stutter has always been for it to be just a normal UN UN.
derek Mitchell: UN UN UN UN UN interesting part of my life. And so was, I kept going through those stages of progress. You know, things became more, more normalized. So now, you know, had that breakthrough in Toastmasters brought that high for. Actually wrote their high for about a year actually. And you know, it was, you know, and had a great time, but you know, it became normalized.
derek Mitchell: So now speaking in public, you know, you know, that's just something normal, but then, you know, you keep moving, you know, you, um, you, um, you keep moving the bar, you keep progressing and keep identifying more. Areas of growth. So now speaking of public, you know, that's no problem, but the one-on-one and the small groups and the Annie, um, and the, um, and the networking events.
derek Mitchell: Now, those were still in. Um, and, um, we're still an issue.
Uri Schneider: Let's go there because I think a lot of people, uh, on both sides, people that know stuttering from their own experience and people who love people who stutter and people who care, people who are professionals, who devote themselves to helping don't appreciate this enough.
Uri Schneider: I'd love for you to share a little bit more on the variability situation, a situation so that Derek who gets up in front of the ballroom. You're feeling free. You're feeling on top of the world, you prepare to Toastmasters for this and the Derrick and other situations, the same guy, same day, same addict of the drug of freedom of speech is, uh, is having a very different experience.
Uri Schneider: Like you said, networking, or one-on-one just to shed light on that just as what it is. And then maybe anything that you found helpful to kind of unpack that or, or, you know, get, get through that.
derek Mitchell: Yeah. I think one, um, One thing to understand is that, you know, people are not static. We are situational. You can take a person, you know, who was the captain of industry, you know, who, um, who was a leader in their profession.
derek Mitchell: You can take the same person and put them with their, their, um, um, um, with their family or their. All friends and something different happens, you know, a different side of them comes out in those situations because the context is different. So, so in the context of a captive audience, you know, w where the spotlight is on me, you know, and, um, and I'm in full control.
derek Mitchell: That's the, you know, that's one scenario, but me, you know, you know, in a crowded. Um, I'm in the crowded noisy room for the people who, I don't know, that's no, that's different. Um, you know, cause, um, No, no, there's more distractions. There's more input. There's no way to, you know, um, to prepare for a conversation.
derek Mitchell: And there's no way to really be, um, to be prepared for the response that you'll get from each person that you speak to in that kind of event. So, um, so, um, there's more variables is more well, you know, it's different, um, variables and different. Unknowns. And so, um, at the time that I was, um, really had started, um, um, my journey was, um, Toastmasters and that made some progress.
derek Mitchell: I, I, um, I had also started to push myself to go to different social and networking events because I understood that I still needed work in that scenario. Um, so just really understanding that that I'm making, um, um, progress in one area doesn't necessarily mean that it's transferable to other areas.
Uri Schneider: And at the same time, meaning, you know, just cause you had a breakthrough in one speaking context, it doesn't mean that every communication situation became a breeze, but I would also argue, would you say that jumping out of an airplane.
Uri Schneider: And that kind of pushing your limits and jumping through your fears was also something that didn't just stick with the airplane or the parachute, but also like what was scarier for you, Derek pushing yourself to go to more social networking events or jumping out of an airplane at the time. The social events.
Uri Schneider: Yeah. So I want everybody to drink that in, if you don't get that, like, I kind of thought Derek might say that I didn't want to finish his words or assume, but just drink that in for this guy. And for a lot of people who stutter at that point, jumping out of an airplane would be highly preferred, um, check the parachute, don't check the parachute, whatever.
Uri Schneider: But, uh, as opposed to. Jumping into a social situation. Like for those of us that don't stutter, like, just think about what that might be like, like to just have that visceral feeling where you'd prefer to jump out of an airplane before you jump into a social, you know, Christmas gathering or something holiday party.
Uri Schneider: Um, so how did you, you know, you said something totally counter-intuitive you said, I knew that was hard for me, so I decided to commit to go to many of them. Uh, what made you think that like, go the other way, right? Runaway.
derek Mitchell: Yeah, well, you know, um, um, I did that for, for the better, um, part of my life is that I ran away.
derek Mitchell: Um, you know, I'm great at quitting I'm. Um, I'm great at, I am. Um, I am skilled at avoidance. I am, um, I am an expert at, um, at, um, at avoiding uncomfortable and difficult situations, which is why. I really didn't make any progress in this area until, um, until my thirties. Um, um, um, um, because whenever things would get tough or uncomfortable, I would just run.
derek Mitchell: I, um, I would avoid and, um, and I would hide. And so I understood. What the consequences of that was because I was living it, you know, I was 30 years old with no confidence. I was 30 years old. What was the con,
Uri Schneider: what was the consequence? Because if you, you manage till 30, like what was the turning point that, that was no longer getting you results that you were pleased with, that pushed you to do something so uncomfortable as reverse course change course.
derek Mitchell: Well, I never was really getting the.
derek Mitchell: Ultimately, I was never getting the outcomes that, that I really wanted. I was just in those moments, I was avoiding fear and discomfort, but the overall outcomes that, um, that wanted out of life, I was never getting those. I was 30 years old and I was, um, not living. Um, um, um, newer clothes stumped on to my potential.
derek Mitchell: I didn't have the kind of people in my life that I wanted to. Um, I wasn't, um, um, I didn't have the, the, um, on the, um, the off ratios or, or, or, or, or, or relationships that. I want it. I didn't make the amount of money that I wanted. I didn't have the job I wanted, but w but what I did have, you know, you know, it's just these small moments where, you know, okay, that was scary.
derek Mitchell: I avoided it. It, um, it's over now. I just had these small moments of, um, A relief, but that's it. And so at 30, you know, stuck with my life and, you know, and realizing, you know, that that I'm living. Mmm, Mmm, Mmm, Mmm. And the consequence of running from my problems and, you know, It's not worth it, you know? And, and just got to a, um, to, to a point where those moments of relief wasn't worth what it was costing me.
Uri Schneider: You were like a wrongly accused fugitive on the run constantly on the run for nothing, for nothing, but you felt. But you felt like you were on the run and relief came when like dodged that bullet, they didn't see you Dodge behind the fence over there. They passed by, like, that was the, that was as high as you got was like, Ugh, I didn't get, you know, but right.
Uri Schneider: But what's fascinating. And I just want to highlight is that people often tell other people when it's time to make that shift. And I think, you know, like you got to stop avoiding, you got to stop running away and nobody could tell somebody else that they should do that because it's natural, it's human to avoid pain, avoid discomfort.
Uri Schneider: Um, and especially when you perceive it that way or you've experienced it, like you said, we don't have to go into it, but physically, verbally going through the MTS to being made fun of having doors closed on you. So it's totally reasonable for young people and young adults and adults. To avoid things that are painful, that are unpleasant.
Uri Schneider: Um, what's remarkable. And often as a turning point is my father often says this, this, this, that cost better. So the cost for you to explore it was yourself and put yourself out. There was far too great for most of your life until you got to a point where it was like, I could be making more money. I'd like to have this relationship in my life.
Uri Schneider: I had, like, there were things that you wanted that were. The other side of that equation. And those became the benefits, which became greater than the inherent cost of the work of change of getting uncomfortable and trying to move the bar forward. But it only happens not when someone else tells you, but when you identify in yourself, what are you, what are you reaching for?
Uri Schneider: What do you really, really want? And you get clear on that. That's when you become Superman. There, you know, and any of us, when we get clear on what we really want, so people come to me and often at the beginning say, what are you? You know, what's your goal? What do you want? Like, I want to stop stuttering.
Uri Schneider: I'm like, right. That's, that's why you're here. And then what, I just want to stop stuttering. I'm like, you know, you know, that's not going to be good enough after today. I'm saying like, let's say that happens. Let's say, but what do you really want? What is this stutter holding you back from? I'll just tell real quick.
Uri Schneider: I got a favorite story. Patch Adams, great movie, Robin Williams. Um, so he's like a clown doctor is using humor in medicine and you know, this, you know, the film I was like,
derek Mitchell: um, but I have not seen it though. All right. So
Uri Schneider: after the cheesecake, after the workout, so patch Adams classic. So there's a scene where he goes into this, um, I think it's the psych ward and there's a bunch of people who are often misunderstood and, uh, he's committed to understanding and treating each one with dignity.
Uri Schneider: And there's this older gentleman who supposedly is a retired mathematical professor and he walks around and shoving his hands in everyone's face. And he's like, how many fingers do you see? And everybody's like four and he's like idiots. And he, you know, and so they write them off as not being of the right mind.
Uri Schneider: Um, And this guy patch Adams, he says not can't be so one night he goes into the guy's room and he sees that he's like writing all these wild equations, like Einstein on paper. And meanwhile, he's got a little tea cup and water tea cup, and a paper cup or something and it's leaking. And so he walks over to the, this little paper cup and he stops the leak for this older gentleman who didn't even see it was leaking on all of his masterpiece work.
Uri Schneider: And then the man smiles and suddenly you see an emotional opening with this older person who was otherwise pretty prickly. And, and he says to him, he says, can you just tell me what's the answer to the question? Now it's hard to do this resume, but I do this in the office often, but there are do me this favor and everybody else that you're watching or listening, put up your fingers, four fingers in front of your face.
Uri Schneider: Okay. Look at your fingers and then have the screen behind you. So you look at your fingers. How many fingers do you see? You'll see four fingers. Now I want you to bring your fingers a little bit closer to your face. Okay? Close your face. But look at the screen, focus on the screen behind your fingers and you start to see double and you see eight fingers.
Uri Schneider: You see that Derrick. So the old man and the lesson of the movie of this episode is we've got to look past the problem, right? We focus on the problem. It's never the right question. It's never the right answer. So I want to stop stuttering. No, this is getting in front of what I really want, which is to connect on the other side.
Uri Schneider: And I'm just hearing from you, Derek. And I just want to amplify what seems to have pushed you to say no, MAs, you know, can't keep running. Was that you came up with a feeling, you know what? I deserve better. I want, I want better. I deserve better. Why not me? Why not me for that job? Why not me? For those relationships?
Uri Schneider: I got to. Find a different way through this. And I think that's what pushes people. So everybody, you can't push someone else, but you can help them identify and unlock that want inside of them because ultimately that's, what's going to bring you to greatness
derek Mitchell: and, and, and I will add to that, this the thing is that the reason why, you know, people really, you know, besides my dad, no one really ever pushed me.
derek Mitchell: And that's because for most of my life, no, just looking out on the outside. Um, I looked okay. I was always a good student. I also behaved, always seem to be doing well. Um, my dad, his mom, my dad is probably one of the few people in my life, um, who can see through the BS and see what's really going on. But, but.
derek Mitchell: Besides that most people know the dismissive because, you know, I, you know, uh, you know, I don't get down on life, you know, you know, even when things are going well, I still find, um, I still find enjoyment out of life. So, so on the outside it might appear that everything is okay. But the one thing is that you have to know yourself and.
derek Mitchell: I knew that I knew what, and I knew what my real, um, um, what my real, um, potential was. And so while everyone else around me thought, you know, that I was doing well, and everything's fine, I knew it wasn't. And so that's when you really have to use yourself, you know, you know, that's when self-reliance really comes in.
derek Mitchell: And you have to be your own resource. You have to push yourself and understand what your true value is, what your potential is and what your needs are, and really do something for yourself that others can't. And, um, Um, and, um, um, um, one, um, one of my favorite, um, speakers talks about having leverage over yourself.
derek Mitchell: You get things done by, by, um, by, um, by, by essentially being able to blackmail yourself and say, look, this is what you want. This is what you got to give. And that's really what it came down to with his dad is that, you know, is that I had to use that leverage over myself and, you know, and say that look, I'm not happy here.
derek Mitchell: I don't have what I want. This is what I want. And to be real about what it would cost me and to, you know, just understand that I can not make a sacrifice. I could just be comfortable and to stay where I am. But, um, but I won't be happy with it. And so constantly having to find that leverage over yourself in on, um, um, um, um, in order to push yourself forward.
Uri Schneider: So for people that are just smitten by your story, and there are many dropping in comments there and I'm one of them. Um, what were some of the things that you had to do or you were ready to do. Along the journey. What were some, some of the costs of what you had to give of yourself in order to achieve where you've gotten to today?
Uri Schneider: And obviously we're all evolving as we go. You're certainly at a turning point, but looking at this story till now, what are some things that you had to do or you had to give of yourself in order to achieve what you achieved thus far?
derek Mitchell: D um, um, Comfort was the biggest thing. And, you know, and, and specifically I had to sacrifice comfort with, um, with, um, with, um, with my voice.
derek Mitchell: I had to start speaking. I had stone to start to, um, uh, I don't have to, um, I don't have to start talking and to really opening myself up. Again, two on people and opened myself up to being praised and being assaulted. Um, but, but, but, but, uh, with, um, um, just had to, um, open myself up to, um, um, to using my voice and that will end, you know, um, that's been the hardest part of the journey is just really.
derek Mitchell: Um, not being afraid, you know, um, what's to stop hiding, um, um, um, um, my voice and it's really embracing it and appreciating it for what it is
Uri Schneider: so powerful. Listen, true life dilemma. Whenever I'm stuck in a situation where someone who stutters. Or anyone really seeks counsel or advice? I always say, I'm not sure let's, let's talk about it, you know, and maybe it's talking about it together. Maybe it's talking about it with some friends, so I'm going to turn to you Derek.
Uri Schneider: And I'm going to ask you for your advice on a true life question that I got, we have a chat for the adult group doing the transcending stuttering experience and teens. And so this adult said, Hey, at a doctor's appointment. I stuttered pretty bad for a moment. And, um, wasn't easy. Yeah. What would you say for the person who's on the journey?
Uri Schneider: Who's trying to push their comfort zone in the situation that you talked about going into social situations, the one-on-ones the calling to order or calling to make a doctor's appointment or talking to a. Medical person to maybe advocate for a family member or for yourself, you know, the situations that's the real life stuff is that they stuff.
Uri Schneider: What would you say was one of the harder ones that you've experienced in terms of what you got in return and how do you kind of carry yourself through it? And then what were some of the more surprising ones where maybe it was rough from your point of view and in your mind you were expecting it to be disastrous.
Uri Schneider: And in the end, the response was actually not. Not negative at all. It was surprisingly good. So can you share maybe like one rough spot and how you would talk yourself through it or talk this person through it and then maybe some of the other side of what happens. Oh, that was clear.
derek Mitchell: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I think in general, the advice is to verse is to understand that it's a process that is not a switch is not a moment that you just, you know, um, That you just get over your fear and, you know, just automatically just feel more comfortable with speaking.
derek Mitchell: You know, it's a process. Um, and for me, you know, one of the. One of the harder things that, um, um, that, you know, that I really experienced, that was more than just the moment, but it was graduate school and it was going to graduate school around all these smart people who had, you know, who, um, who had, you know, the beginnings of great, um, careers.
derek Mitchell: It takes
Uri Schneider: one to know one.
derek Mitchell: Yeah. Yeah. Um, and you know, having to, you know, And, and, and being concerned with them, seeing you as an equal and, and, um, and, um, having on that fear that having a stutter, um, um, um, um, would make me appear less intelligent or qualified or capable, um, to be in that room.
derek Mitchell: But you got to go through it and know very uncomfortable at first, but ultimately it got to the point where, you know, when, you know, I had my classmates who became advocates and when things would know, and if I was out with them and people would make comments. I didn't have to do anything. Like they would do it for me.
derek Mitchell: So, you know, um, um, going through that process of really not hiding my voice, not hiding myself and, and, you know, giving people the opportunity to accept me and, you know, being able to be vulnerable and, you know, have some trust in people which didn't always turn out. Mmm. Mmm. Mmm, well, but sometimes it does.
derek Mitchell: And so just really being willing to go through the process because what that person is experiencing is that cool. They really haven't addressed the, um, the root issues with stubborn yet they may have addressed, um, you know, The fluency aspect, but having addressed how they feel about it. And so that's what they're experiencing because when you get to a point when you really have addressed how you feel about it, It's tough for, um, for someone else to really have an impact on you.
derek Mitchell: Of course, we're no, um, we're um, we're, you know, um, um, um, we're um, we're, um, um, we're all human and you know, other, the people do have an effect on us, but by and large, The more comfortable that you feel with yourself, the, um, the more difficult it is for other people to really affect you. So what are you describing is really how he feels about his stuttering?
derek Mitchell: That's not really about anybody else. That's, you know, that's about him, um, and his own feelings about it. So that's where it's got to start. It's going through that process of, you know, of addressing how, um, how. How, how, how he feels about himself and, um, and his stutter.
Uri Schneider: I'm going to just reflect on that for one second and then give you the opportunity to take us home with final thoughts.
Uri Schneider: And hopefully we'll have a second round because this has been absolutely. Riveting stunning. And I'm so inspired to finish this call and go push my limits and jump out of an airplane. Um, but I just want to say what Derek just shared. I think really inspires me when we frame what we talk about in the transcending stuttering framework, the self-acceptance and self-advocacy are so connected.
Uri Schneider: You know, people want to get certain treatment or get certain responses, or, and sometimes that's going to be tempered by the degree that they tolerate themselves and give themselves the love, give themselves the tolerance, give themselves the care that they deserve themselves. So it sometimes comes out as I want this teacher to do this, or I want this purse professional or teller or clerk, but it has to start with us and the measure that we can give it to ourselves and tolerate and love and hold ourselves.
Uri Schneider: Then. We sometimes can have much more success getting it from the people around us. So the two are connected. I can't be just like separated one from the other. Uh, if you appreciate Derek and you appreciate this conversation, check it out on the podcasts, subscribe, drop reviews. It really helps spread Derek story and all these other awesome stories and exemplary heroes further, um, drop your likes, your shares.
Uri Schneider: And with that, I'd love to give you the chance to kind of bring us home with some. Parting wisdom to finish this chapter of your story. And then we're going to do, you know, another episode into the next 40 years.
derek Mitchell: Um, well, you know, teasing this out. I just want to say that I really appreciate, um, no, um, um, the work.
derek Mitchell: That you're doing. And, you know, people like you like, um, um, like you mentioned, call herder people who are really taking this to the next level and really coming at this with the holistic approach from not just, you know, the stutter, but the person.
derek Mitchell: Who stutters and, you know, w what that complete picture, um, um, looks like as far as what they need to really get what they want and, you know, um, and what their goals are. And, um, you know, that's one of the biggest lessons that I've learned is that. My stutter is a part of me and I used to treat and I used to treat it like it was something separate because I didn't want to be associated with it.
derek Mitchell: And ultimately I was taking a part of myself and trying to diss on and trying to have this. Associated, and those are a big mistake. And, and, and, and, um, so, and so I really appreciate the, um, you know, the approach that you're taking with this and looking at the whole person and not just the stutter itself, because I think, um, that will definitely make a big difference with your clients in, you know, Um, in particular and hopefully we'll, um, we'll, um, we'll, um, we'll have an impact on the field of study itself.
derek Mitchell: And, um, and, um, and how therapy is approach going forward?
Uri Schneider: I hate to do this, but I got to just reflect on that. My father always says we are not human beings. We are human becomings. So on the event of your reflecting on your first 40 years of awesomeness, I just want to wish you, and also what you just said, you know, we are all evolving.
Uri Schneider: With time in the process of improving and leveraging ourselves and bringing our best selves out and then connecting and seeing what new opportunities and new things like in the pages that are yet unwritten in our stories. Uh, so we are all human becomings that's attributed to this rabbi, David, Aaron, um, but we're all human becomings.
Uri Schneider: And I think as much as people who stutter should be seen in that light, I think professionals as well, we should come to the work, all of us and come to every engagement as evolving human beings. Uh, all of us with our baggage and our limitations, but also with something special. And I also want to say second point.
Uri Schneider: I want to thank you for stuttering, Derek. Cause if you didn't the stutter, you and I would have never connected, you know, a black guy from Atlanta, Georgia. A white Jewish guy from New York city. We would never find our common love of cheesecake. You know what I'm saying? So I want to thank you for stuttering and for bringing us together and for everyone listening.
Uri Schneider: Thank you for recognizing that transcending stuttering is about that. It's about getting past, just seeing the fluency. It's about seeing the transcendence of that and asking yourself, what does it mean to transcend stuttering? So for all the people listening, ask yourself that question and realize. It's stuttering the products together, but it doesn't stop there.
Uri Schneider: It's about the human connection. It's about growth. It's about achieving. It's about identifying what we really, really want, and then having the courage to go get it. And so Derek. You are an inspiration for me. I thank you for taking the time. Thank everybody here. Again, check out all these conversations and more@schneiderspeech.com slash our blog.
Uri Schneider: Drop your comments with your highlights. There are a lot of great takeaways here. We're going to, we're going to share a lot of those. Thank you. Share your, share your comments with us, um, and stay tuned and you can see the replay of all of these episodes are listened on podcasts everywhere. Thank you, Derek.
Uri Schneider: And I thank all of you for joining us. Thanks so much.
derek Mitchell: Thank you.