#65 From the shadows to the light with Raiani Sibien
“What really matters - is not how I speak. It’s what I say.”
Listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts or your favorite podcast platform. You can also watch the interview on YouTube.
BIO:
Raiani Sibien, founder of Stuttering Society, is a Brazilian and Italian national currently living in Belgium. She graduated in journalism from a British university and has a Masters degree in the field of security and diplomacy. After a long journey towards stuttering acceptance, Raiani decided to create Stuttering Society, an online platform that helps other people who stutter in different aspect of their lives. Since leaving her hometown in Brazil in 2006, Raiani had the opportunity to study and work in several countries, including England, Italy, Israel, Switzerland, Belgium, and the United States.
EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS
00:00 – 01:42 -- Intro to Podcast
01:42 – 07:20 -- Bio of Guest: Getting to know Raiani Sibien as an international citizen: Brazil, Italy, England, and Belgium. Founder of the Stuttering Society, and online platform for PWS (people who stutter).
08:25 – 13:31 – Raiani Sibien, her career as a singer/songwriter; hiding her stutter; and the feelings of humiliation and defeat. “Keeping the show going.”
16:13 – 20:13 – Italy, a new chapter. “Every dream comes with hardships.” Hiding her stutter behind a foreign language.
20:16 – 26:56 – London, studying journalism and becoming open to disclosure and reframing risks.
26:56 – 27:15 – Lack of awareness in society about stuttering; disclosing and feeling better about self
27:15 – 28:40 – From the shadow to the light; stuttering doesn’t define a person; disclosing with confidence.
31:56 – 38:34 – The perils of perfectionism; hiding and lack of acceptance translate into suffering; how not disclosing can affect one’s career; how people on the journey become door-openers.
38:34 - 42:50 - The cost of the status quo and the risk of staying the same; closing thoughts about educating others and raising awareness about stuttering.
43:45 – 45:44 – Stuttering society website and career advice page as a resource.
RESOURCE LIST
MORE QUOTES
“I felt that I was finally going from the shadow to the light. I was finally able to start being myself, like stuttering, my singing talents, everything, the good, the bad, the ugly. And that for me was extremely important to start realizing that stuttering does not define me.” - Raiani Sibien
“When I tell people I stutter with confidence, I feel that people respect more the fact that I stutter and it makes me feel more confident about who I am in general.” - Raiani Sibien
TRANSCRIPTION:
Uri Schneider: And we are continue. We are alive here. We are. My name is Laurie Schneider and I am so excited to be back with a transcending, stuttering, the podcast. I haven't had a conversation like this in a few days and it feels like I didn't drink my milk or something like that. Like I'm missing these conversations and this morning, It's like a, it's like a super vitamin to have this conversation with Annie Sylvian.
Uri Schneider: Um, she is someone very, very special and, uh, brings together. A lot of wisdom and experience and perspective, especially not just international because she's somewhere else in the world, but she has been around the world. She's one of those people. And, uh, so her life experience and her travels and the different things she's involved in are super exciting.
Uri Schneider: I'm super excited to share this with you. Also inviting everybody to check out lots of free events. We're experimenting with a new. Uh, platform called Luma. So you could check out Luma, L U dot M a M like monster, uh, Luma, L U dot a slash transcending stuttering. And we have now some in-person events coming up, uh, in New York and in New Jersey and other places.
Uri Schneider: And also of course, more on zoom and on clubhouse and, uh, without further ado, it is a big pleasure and honor to welcome.
Raiani Sibien: That's correct. Thank you very so much providing me today. Thank you. It's a pleasure to, to, uh, to, to be here today. So thank you so
Uri Schneider: much. Thank you. Tell us, um, my first question is always, you know, what's something you would wish that people should know about you?
Raiani Sibien: Well, I would say that, um, I was born and raised to ane Brazil.
Raiani Sibien: But I am also like Italian, so I have dual nationality and, um, that I'm currently living in Belgium, in the rainy city of, uh, Brussels. And then I recently, uh, also, uh, launched a very, a very special project called, uh, . Called stuttering society, which I'm super, super, um, really, really proud about.
Uri Schneider: Yeah. And I realized I was so excited.
Uri Schneider: I got a little bit like, um, star shock or something like that. And I suddenly like skipped the bio. So let me just give you a proper introduction with the bio here. Um, as you shared, you're the founder of the stuttering society. Okay. More needs to be said, but yes, you have this Brazilian background. You have this Italian background and now you live in Belgium.
Uri Schneider: Um, your work is pretty interesting too. Graduated, uh, in journalism from British university, with a masters in the field of security and diplomacy. We'll just leave it there. Everything is secure and will be very diplomatic, um, after a long journey in stuttering acceptance. Uh, and I know, and I'll share this.
Uri Schneider: You're a very polished person, but I'll just share. One thing that you didn't share is that this was a side thing that you developed for a long time and poured your heart. And so while doing life and working a very serious full-time job. So I think just to give you even more credit to you, many people start projects and by the way, everybody should have a project, right?
Uri Schneider: I think a COVID was a great time for people to dig in and read. The busy world around them and things pulling at them. Everybody's got to find what gets them excited and what they have the capacity to create, to contribute. And that could be, you know, it could be anything, but I'm just really excited to see other people who have that.
Uri Schneider: Like I do, you know, that interest in kind of doing things. That you care about and seeing where they go, but sticking with with it. And so this was years that you worked on this and it's so exciting to see it coming to fruition. So as a combination of your own personal journey, you decided to create the stuttering society and online platform, tell people who stutter in different aspects of their lives.
Uri Schneider: And we've talked about that. It jives so beautifully, um, so much what the world needs and something that I think is really tremendous. Uh, especially talking about things other than just stuttering, right? Because we are human beings. And maybe we'll talk about that. So since leaving your hometown in Brazil, in 2006, you had the opportunity to study and work in several countries.
Uri Schneider: I won't mention my favorites among them, but they include England, Italy, Israel, Switzerland, Belgium, us, and probably another one or two. So there's the formal intro. Um, So cool. Why don't you just share, when, when did you first have this idea to kick off the stuttering society? What was the first time you remember thinking?
Uri Schneider: Yeah, I think that's something the world is needing. I think that's something I could do.
Raiani Sibien: Yeah. Uh, well, uh, first of all, thank you so much for this amazing, you know, um, for this amazing introduction. Um, the first time I had the idea. For the stuttering society was in 2000 and, um, and 19, um, so for many years, and for the, I have to go back.
Raiani Sibien: So for, for most of my life, I was very like ashamed to talk about no, like stuttering, but then like slowly, slowly, I started to open up to some people and I, and I just really fell that people have no clue what is actually like stuttering. And I started to feel that needed to, to, to just really talk more, um, about that.
Raiani Sibien: And, uh, and I, and then I started to feel that I didn't have one place that really combined everything I wanted to see as a person who, who, who stutters. And I felt that, um, it would be so cool to have one safe place that brings people together. They're really like inspired them, uh, connect them. And that also brings like our, our, our awareness about this topic.
Raiani Sibien: And then I set a very, very long journey towards creating the platform. As you mentioned, I have a full-time job at the same time, and I am the only person dealing with the whole like stuttering, uh, society, uh, project. So it's been a crazy journey of doing both at the same time. But then the first like idea came to me in 2019 and I started to work on it at the end of 2019.
Raiani Sibien: So around October, I think.
Uri Schneider: Wow. So when you went through your journey, what were some of the. Or some of the turning points or opportunities or experiences or people that were door openers for you? Cause I would imagine it's interesting just to hear from different people around the world, what was a page Turner for them and who opened the door for you?
Uri Schneider: And I think also that often helps us identify, you know, where you're at today and what matters to you because of your experience and your journey. So maybe bring us back to. Perhaps, you know, the title you chose from the shadow to the light, you know, maybe a taste of what it was like in the shadows. And then what brought you into the light and, and who, or what were some of those important moments or people?
Raiani Sibien: That's a great question. Thank you, Uri. Um, well, I have to go back a long time maybe. Um, uh, many people don't know, but I'm also like a singer songwriter and I have two albums, uh, and
Uri Schneider: yeah, I would, they know it's not in the bio and there you go, listen, I'm going to pull out so many things about you that you haven't yet been willing to share.
Uri Schneider: But as I said at the beginning, uh, there's so much more to you than just the bio and everybody's in for a big treat. And I think, uh, I'll just say. As much as the intersectionality of our identities makes us a more dimensional, right? Like three dimensional human beings, different experiences, hobbies, interests.
Uri Schneider: We think on a, on a resume, all they want to hear about is like where we worked. Right. But I think, uh, even stuttering can be added to one's resume. As a source of courage as a source of, uh, I've been battle tested, you know, I've been living with this and I have figured it out. And so I am confident that life can throw me other challenges and I'm anyway, I love that you're a singer and that you have two albums.
Uri Schneider: Would you drop the names for people that want to. Well, I,
Raiani Sibien: yeah, but I don't think they, I'm not sure they can even find it because like my first album, I launched in Brazil in 2004. So it's like a long time ago. Um, I had the baby voice, not that much, but, um, and then my second one I launched, I was actually released in Italy in 2010.
Raiani Sibien: But my first job when I was much younger and I struggled so much because, um, my song like started to play in the local radio and people search one too, you know, like. Interview me radios. And for me was a nightmare because I felt so bad because I wasn't really able to say much and people didn't know because I constantly try to hide.
Raiani Sibien: I have a speech impediment and my pauses people just fall like, oh, she doesn't know what to say, or maybe she doesn't have that much to say. And I really tried my best to hide. I stutter. And I suffered so much because every time I felt really like defeated, I felt humiliated. I felt defeated. I felt like I had so much more to say.
Raiani Sibien: But I kept it to myself and I always try to shorten up my sentences just because I felt it was so hard to get some words out. And the more the end, like the more tense I was, the worst I felt. And then. It's a combination of things. So, uh, I, I remember once I was invited to sing and I didn't know that would, uh, that would have been alive, like interview, you know, with every guest singer.
Raiani Sibien: So when I go there, the first thing I see is that people interviewing me and that was caught really like of guard. And I remember they, they asked me a simple question and I could barely say two to three words, and then they just, uh, realize that I wasn't really saying much. So the just really cut it short and say, thank you so much.
Raiani Sibien: And then they, I felt like my gosh, I don't want to sing.
Uri Schneider: And that's it. Yeah. Yeah. You felt like that moment. You just wanted to step away from something. No, I didn't see you there for a moment. Yeah, we can hold this.
Raiani Sibien: Yeah. So he wants me to be hard because. I just couldn't, I, I, I just couldn't deal with this, you know, and I felt so bad and I kept like smiling and I had to put on my best face and I had to go on like on, on stage and sing.
Raiani Sibien: And I had to talk to people know, like afterwards and from the outside, I was completely fine. Like, no one could ever guess how I was feeling. And I remember just being like, I, how am I going to be a singer? If I don't want to give any interview, how am I going to be a singer? If, if I don't want to talk on stage, how, how am I going to do that?
Raiani Sibien: You know? So it was, VTB hard but still. I kept trying, but two, like two years later, my family, uh, they, they moved to Italy so there I started a whole new journey. Uh, for me and, uh, but I still, I was very reluctant to talk about like such dream. And then, uh, I met,
Uri Schneider: you were still okay. Performing and I just want to apologize there.
Uri Schneider: Uh, two things, transparency. I was typing because I was treasuring what you were sharing and trying to share it with some of the groups. And I realized I was number one, I wasn't on mute. So the typing was probably audible. Number two, I didn't see your face. And I was listening to you. And I said, I heard the quiet and my response was out of sink touch.
Uri Schneider: Yeah. That was especially, we've had, we had another, you know, I've had several first conversations with people before the podcast and we spoke a few weeks ago. And we scheduled, I think a half hour and three hours later, it was just going great. Um, but we haven't gotten to speak that much and that you went there and that you allowed yourself just now to let those feelings come, I think is a very precious, I just want to thank you for going there and let you know that, uh, that's what it's about.
Uri Schneider: So I try to be as open as possible, and I appreciate your being as open as you feel comfortable to be. But I think it's a feeling people can resonate with that, you know, like you get to that spot and it's sort of, I almost was guilty of the same thing. In other words, not being, people don't know what's up and you feel responsible to keep the show going, you know, in that musical performance, you know, uh, obviously you can't be alone.
Uri Schneider: You can't tell them what's really going on and you're all alone. It's all on you to save that moment and get yourself through that. And one thing you definitely can't do is like, tell them what's really going on. Cause there's no way they'll understand. There's no way they'll support it, you know? And so you feel kind of compelled to, to, to hide and to cover up and to keep the show going.
Uri Schneider: So you were saying how your family moved to it? And I'm sure that felt like a fresh start in many ways, and also probably challenging as a change and shift in that point in your life. So maybe just, yeah, you can either go back or go forwards, but how did that experience, which I'm sure was, and we could see it's still there.
Uri Schneider: You know, it was very formative in print. Uh, how did that kind of roll into that next chapter? And how you carried yourself or held back or put yourself out there or chose to deal with it differently or kind of went forward, always kind of bracing for that repeat experience that you had.
Raiani Sibien: Yeah. Yeah. So, um, so when we, uh, when we, um, moved to, to, to Italy, a whole new chapter, like started and, um, I had to learn a new, a new language.
Raiani Sibien: I didn't know, like on new zero Italian, uh, zero English, only Portuguese. So it was like, okay, what do I do now? And, um, but it was a little bit difficult to leaving everything and moving to a whole new. A place where, where you don't know the culture, the language, the people, but on the other hand, it was always my, my biggest dream to leave like abroad.
Raiani Sibien: I always really dreamed about living in many countries in speaking many languages. So it was like a dream come true. But every dream comes with also the hardships. Right? So. It was really nice, but, um, I realized that I tend to have more blocks in Italian. I don't know why I am fluent in Italian, but for some reason I feel like is a little bit harder for me to get the words out.
Raiani Sibien: And, uh, and then, um, I also, I was, uh, still performing and also where it can in many different jobs and bring a lot of things and, um, And then I also released another album with a Italian musician who is, who died in 2017, but he was really great. He was a pianist and composer. And, um, I remember the, we did some.
Raiani Sibien: Some, uh, radio interviews as well in Italy. And of course, because like Italian, it's not my first language bit eight to viewer, and most people just thought I didn't speak Italian very well. And that's why I was so, as it sounds to say words, because I was trying to find the words, but I knew deep inside.
Raiani Sibien: No I stutter, you know? Um, but for me it was very comfortable to pretend that there was the case. For me, it was actually comfortable that people would think I don't speak the language very well then think that I stuttered because I was so still like ashamed of that. So I let people think there was a language barrier that I didn't speak Italian so well, and I never mentioned pretty much to anyone, but then what was
Uri Schneider: that?
Uri Schneider: Just want to highlight that that's it was more comfortable. To do a deep fake to, to play the part of, um, something that wasn't true. Something that maybe even was a downgrade of your actual caliber of skill and worth and ability, then it was too whoa, like actually be open, direct, et cetera, like yeah. Um, for people that get that and you get it for people that don't, you know, to realize the depths.
Uri Schneider: Of shame and of stigma and these things. Yeah. Wow. So for days, for months, weeks, years, people, I don't know what your, you know, time spent and of that was, but there was this like, okay. They don't think I speak perfect. This is comfortable. I'm finally comfortable. They don't think I speak Italian. Whereas for someone else, you know, it'd be like, no, no, no, I speak, I'm intelligent, you know, oh, this is great.
Uri Schneider: I could lean into this. This is my cover
Raiani Sibien: exactly. It was like a coverup for me, you know, like, okay. I don't care if I, I mean, it didn't bother me a little bit because I knew I am fluent and I was fluent by then, but it was more comfortable to let them think that my talent wasn't that great. Then for me to know that they know I stutter, but the thing is that, um, so I spent in Italy altogether two and a half years and then I moved to, to London to study. And when I'm moved to London and to, to study, I chose to study journalism because honestly, I didn't know what else to do apart from music. I just always wanted to the music, but moving from Brazil changed completely my plans because it's like, I don't want to be a singer singing in like Italian and singing in Portuguese.
Raiani Sibien: Who cares, you know? So it just didn't feel that I had any way to go. Uh, And also because I still, we didn't want it to go to, you know, university have a degree. I started seeing all of my friends, like having a job, finishing, you know, university, and I felt like I need to catch up on this. I am a little bit behind and then, yeah, and then I chose a journalism because I felt it was a bit more open and white because I love, uh, languages.
Raiani Sibien: I, I like to, to, to write and I'm really like interested in different topics, but then of course. So it was a scary that I would have, like the, the, I would have to talk. That was one of my biggest, uh, concerns. And I did have some, uh, some like presentations in class. There was when I find me started to be slightly more open about like stuttering.
Raiani Sibien: And, uh, my mom was essential for that because she was the only person I would talk about this topic and that, and then I was like, mom, I had, I have a class presentation. I cannot do it. And I don't know what to say because it's not fair to be judged on my fluency skills, how fluent I am, how good I am at, you know, like speaking, presenting, that's not fair.
Raiani Sibien: And then she was like, why don't you talk to your professor and just tell them that you have this like speeching impediment and see what is the best thing to do if he can know like accommodate or something. And I was like, I can't, I cannot talk about this from you as like, like the devil I, for me, like is the train was a big ghost, the monster, but then I felt like, okay, if I don't talk about it, Then I have to do the presentation.
Raiani Sibien: If I talk about it, then I have a chance to maybe I can write an essay or something. So I had the two professors, um, that they really want us to do a class, a presentation.
Uri Schneider: Can I, can I just ask you, um, don't lose your momentum and I'm not going to digress on mindful not to interrupt here. Can you just say that out again?
Uri Schneider: The thought that you had your mother has this crazy idea. Why don't you talk to your professor that was not something you had thought of and that wasn't something you were leaning into and then you just formulated it. And I just was, if you could just say again, kind of like, what was the upside, what was the downside, how you kind of thought that through and then chose to go forward from there.
Raiani Sibien: Yeah. Um, so I just thought, like, what are the options? If I don't talk to my professor, I have to do the class presentation. If I talk to my professor, I have a chance that maybe we can negotiate, accommodate and is going to be a win-win for both of us, you know? Like I'll feel more comfortable that at least he knows, oh, she knows.
Raiani Sibien: And maybe I can write an essay or something.
Uri Schneider: I love that. Win-win I love that. We're going to come back to that. So what happened there?
Raiani Sibien: What happened? So two professors, one, uh, told me he was like, thank you so much for sharing, but I still want you to do a class presentation, but how we will keep in mind that you have a speech disorder, something like that, which I was like, okay, I'm better than nothing.
Raiani Sibien: And then my other professor was a woman and she told me. I asked her, I was like, can I do the class presentation just for you, you and me so that I don't have to be like, like embarrassed in front of the whole class. And she said, yes. So that was our so grateful because even though I stutter, when I was doing the, the presentation to her, I felt much more comfortable because I knew I was, um, because, uh, she, yeah.
Raiani Sibien: So that took off the weight of my shoulders and because it was just her, I didn't have to go through these like, like in front of everyone, because I wasn't really like ready to share this with everyone. So there was great. Um, but still I didn't share with my friends, with my classmates with pretty much anyone.
Raiani Sibien: Um, so, uh, fast forward. In my master's, uh, program, I also had to do class presentations and I went through the same things. So I, I spoke to my, to my professors again in private, and they allow me to write an essay Heather than doing a class, uh, a class, uh, presentation, but I didn't share with my classmates.
Raiani Sibien: So. Probably my classmates never really understood why I was never presenting class. And many times these were like group, you know, group presentations. And I was always like, not part of any group presentation that would just tell them that I spoke to the professor to write an essay because I really like struggled to do a presentation, but I never shared I stuttered. So most people saw yeah. Uh, meet you. I get so nervous. It's so difficult. But actually my case was a bit beyond that. But then, um, because I set up to talk to my professors and one of them was like, can you send me more about what is like to stuttering because I don't see you like stuttering. And I was like, well, first of all, I'm good at hiding most of the time.
Raiani Sibien: Many times I'm fluent. And when I, and when I have like small blocks, um, people usually interpret as a language barrier because I am speaking in a different language. They don't know that I'm just blocked. So I realized there was a lot of like lack of, uh, of, of awareness about this topic. And, um, and I started to feel like, okay, Maybe I can help all the people who walk through the same situations as me by starting to talk about it and to raise our awareness.
Raiani Sibien: Because if I don't talk, people don't know. And even I started to talk to my best friends, like I stutter, um, and I could see that they were shocked. They're like, I never realized. I never paid attention to how you speak or to your pauses. Sometimes I thought they were just like a normal and, um, and talking about it really starting to make me feel much better.
Raiani Sibien: And I felt that I was finally going from the shadow to the light. I was finally able to start being myself, like with everything I am, everything - like stuttering, my singing talents, everything, the good, the bad, the ugly, you know, like everything. And that for me was extremely important, to start realizing that stuttering does not define me. And if people think less of me because of that, it's their problem, it's not mine. I feel like when I tell people I stutter with confidence, I feel that people also respect more the fact that I stutter and it makes me feel more confident about who I am in general.
Uri Schneider: I listen to you and like, It just fires me up, inspires for me as a person who doesn't stutter, part of why I wake up every day doing these things and they call it work. Like I don't think of it as work. It's a privilege. I'm so inspired. I mean, what you just shared is so human. And so empowering and inspiring and there comments flying in, uh, from people I know from Ireland and the U S and other places and people, I don't know, thanking you and saying what a great storyteller you are.
Uri Schneider: And I'm sure they want me to just let you keep talking. So I'm going to try to be very deliberate, not to, uh, take more time in the words, but to really give you the most of the time. I love what you said there at the end, that opening up about your stuttering. It wasn't just like, um, a sigh of relief with that stuttering, but suddenly other areas lit up brighter.
Uri Schneider: Could you talk a little bit more about that? Like how, cause it wasn't just, it wasn't just about stuttering and I think that's also something really interesting and part of the stages of openness and of accepted. It's not only saying, okay, all right. I stutter. I can say that. Yeah, I can hold, I can sit in the room with my stutter, but then there's a level that you talked about where I'm feeling, feeling just like, uh, like a light bulb where you can set the dimmer, you know, you can go from off to just a little bit on, and then you can slide it on even more and slide it on even more.
Uri Schneider: It sounds like for you. And I know this to be true for many people, other parts of life started to pray. And you felt like you were living more full voltage. Uh, you talked about your singing and other things. Could you just share like what that felt like or what that, what that means to you? How being open with the stutter, kind of that part of you not hiding that part lit up, not only that dark shadow, but also other parts.
Uri Schneider: Yeah.
Raiani Sibien: Yeah, sure. Yes. Uh, first of all, I, I want to thank everyone, voice, uh, commenting. I, I cannot see the comments, but thank you so much for, uh, commenting is great.
Uri Schneider: And with that, I'll just say, keep the comments coming and the shares, because that gets this story and conversation further, and the podcast will be out this weekend, transcending, stuttering, and you can review and like, and share the podcast too.
Raiani Sibien: Thank you. Uh, yes. Um, so I think one, one of the things that I'm really happy about being open about stuttering is that I feel I'm getting to know who I am in every different, aspect. And with that comes, confidence comes believing in yourself, believing that you can be whoever you want to be. You can do whatever you want. You can follow your dreams. If you can just be you and being you, there's nothing wrong with that. And, um, I am a little bit of a perfectionist, right. And honestly, many times it sucks. Because this is also one of the big reasons why I always want it to look perfect. I don't want people to know that I stutter because I felt it was like a weakness, something that didn't make me really perfect. You know, even though I know I'm not perfect, I have so many flaws, but we tend to keep private, our flaws, everyone tries to show their best side. But when it comes to like stuttering it's a challenge that people can not hide. You know, so I think that's the challenge of like stuttering. When people try to hide their challenges, what they go through the, for them, it's really hard with like a stuttering it's public. You feel really like exposed and feeling exposed. It's not easy. So if you don't come to terms with like stuttering, you're going to suffer a lot, a lot in your self-confidence in who you are. And I feel like. When you finally the accept the stuttering, the self-acceptance, um, also brings other the things.
Raiani Sibien: It means that you take away the focus from your challenge the stuttering, and you can finally focus on everything else that maybe you maybe you never did, uh, before. And, uh, being able to. It's like you take away. Okay. It's not that you like, ignore it. Like it's the tree, you know, is there is a part of, um, of you, it's a part of your daily challenge.
Raiani Sibien: However, you can also see now they have so many of the dreams to pursue. So many of the things that you can do with your life, not only like stuttering So, um, nowadays, if I would ever go back to singing yet, I mean, my life has changed so much when you go, when I go back to say, thank you. I probably, I would be much more relaxed about that because I don't feel so much the pressure of, I have to be fluent when I speak.
Raiani Sibien: I have to be fluent on stage, on an interview. I will be like, Hey guys, listen, I stutters. So if you see me like struggling, don't worry. It's normal. And I'm fine with it. What really matters is not how I speak it's the content It's what I am saying that matters. It's, is, is the content of my speech Heather than how I am delivering the, you know, um, and I think for me, it was also very important to professionally, you know, like, um, I have had the chance to work.
Raiani Sibien: Thank God for the most incredible. Organizations and really, and really prestigious places. And one of them is the, they United nations in Geneva. And I remember I had to do a presentation once for senior four senior, uh, senior stuff, some of the bosses and stuff. And this was back in 2017 end of 2017. So it's not even so, so long ago.
Raiani Sibien: And of course back then, I still was not really fine about disclosing, disclosing stuttering. So I pretty much didn't manage to do my presentation and my boss had the, to, to step in and he didn't know also I have a speech impediment. So, um, at the end, when we were like, you know, like, After the, the presentation, we, we, we went into grab some coffee and he told me like, that was not really prepared, you know, for the presentation that I should get better on my presentation, like skills.
Raiani Sibien: And I felt so bad because still I didn't share. I stutter. I just told him yet. For me, it's really hard. I feel so nervous. And I felt like, why didn't I share? That was the perfect moment to share. I stuttered has nothing to do with me. No, maybe be prepared or my presentation, like, you know, like skills. I can definitely like improve for sure, but it's a bigger issue and I, and I didn't share.
Raiani Sibien: So probably everyone in the room thought that she cannot present. She didn't know much about the topic and yeah. Like professionally, it can immediate, like affect you. If you don't share that you like that you like that you, that you started because people can think that you just don't know about the subject and they can think you're not really capable in what you are doing.
Raiani Sibien: So I think also in terms of, uh, career is important to share when you feel it's really necessary. I don't know if I answered your question. I, I think I kind of got diverse instead of talking so much,
Uri Schneider: the question wasn't as good as the answer. Sometimes they say the answer isn't as good as the question.
Uri Schneider: Come on. Uh, Tom, Scharfstein just woke up in Florida. He's wowed, uh, the world's stuttering network over there. Um, and I think that, uh, so two things I want to just revisit and we're going to. Let's be a little shorter today based on a personal schedule that I have, but we hopefully, you know, we will be, you know, you and I have been in touch and we will continue.
Uri Schneider: And hopefully we'll have an episode too, because there's a lot that you've shared. That's resonating with me personally. And with a lot of people that are listening, I want to just revisit what I said to come back to. And you kind of said it just now I think, um,
Uri Schneider: what your mom said to you, why don't you tell the professor so, first of all, you haven't mentioned. You haven't mentioned a whole lot of people that were big door openers for you. The one person you mentioned is your mom. And I think that for many of us to recognize that, uh, our loved ones, our parents, our siblings, uh, people that we're close to, they want to be there for us.
Uri Schneider: And if we open up the conversations that are difficult, sometimes you don't need to go far that the people that, that can give you the best love and support and open your eyes to be right in your. In your, you know, closest circle and right in your own home, perhaps. So first is I just think that's beautiful that it was your mom.
Uri Schneider: And when you look at the interviews that my father and I have done with hundreds of people who stutter and you ask, what was the biggest contribution to your breakthrough? Uh, it's often not a certain strategy that a professional taught me. It was either a parent or a teacher or a therapist, somebody who believed in you and helped you just take fresh eyes at something that I really want to punctuate what you said about how your mom said, you know, why don't you tell him? And you were like, what? I never thought of that, but let's see if I don't tell them. It'll definitely be uncomfortable. If I do tell him there's a chance it could open up and be a win-win.
Uri Schneider: It could go. Less desirable, but it could be a win-win. I think that's such a fresh way to look at things and I just want to invite everybody and it could be anything you're dealing with to think about. We think of risk as like, if I do this next move, what's the risk I'm going to expose myself. And that could be scary. And they might see me for who I am and they might not like who I am and they might not give me the job. They might fire me. They might take away that responsibility or it might go really well. But in that equation and the way you formulated it is the way I've started to think about things you said, not only what's the risk of doing that, what's the cost of staying the same.
Uri Schneider: So we think like status quo is so safe, but we also have to look at what's the cost of the status quo and, uh, dealing with international relations and all sorts of conflicts that seem like they're going nowhere, but also in personal conflicts, it's the same thing. We don't take enough consideration of like, what's the cost of the status quo, because this is costing me.
Uri Schneider: I'm faking my way through life. I'm making it, I'm making it in a lot of ways, but like every day I wake up, it's a, it's a fake it's, there's a certain cover. There's a certain amount that I'm selling out. There's a certain amount of calories I'm invested in making it that I don't speak. Or a certain amount of calories that I'm leaning into the story that I didn't prepare.
Uri Schneider: I'm a perfectionist. If they knew how much I prepared, holy smokes, that I'm leaning into that I'm getting. And in the movie, transcending, stuttering, Alan Rabinowitz, or says the same thing, you know, the cash register, the woman kind of register says, please forgive him. He's retarded. Those were the words that he used.
Uri Schneider: And instead of saying, I'm not retarded, I stutter, he acted even more dramatic. And movements and things that he thought would be the performance of what someone would look like who's retarded. So what a sellout. Right? So a crazy, just crazy. So I just loved what you said there, um, Tom Scharstein, fine is bringing us out.
Uri Schneider: If you don't disclose stuttering, it could affect you professionally. Um, so what happened when you did open up with that? Uh, boss?
Raiani Sibien: Oh, so, uh, with that boss, I never actually, uh, disclosed. Um, I only came to terms to be so open about like stuttering two years ago. And that's why, that's why I didn't have so many people with information because my mom was pretty much the only person I would talk about this.
Raiani Sibien: And, uh, I mean, my mom and God, um, a lot, um, for me, my faith has helped me also a lot. It's a personal thing, but these two things combined was really like key for me to keep going. Um, And, uh, and, uh, my mom was the only person that would really talk about this. Uh, but all of my friends, whoever I would mention, they would always be very like, um, very supportive.
Raiani Sibien: But my mom was, was the one that made a whole difference for, for, for me to start talking about this and, um, and, uh, at work out what I feel now, when I talk about it. It's much easier because I feel like they smell so much pressure when it comes to, if I have to talk in a presentation or something, um, my, my capabilities, my abilities, my knowledge is not put at stake if I stutter because they know it's not, because I don't know my subject is because I am like struggling. So I think it's very important, um, that people know, and to also like, you know, like educate people because many times they could think that the speech I speech disorder. is something related to someone's intellectual capabilities and that has nothing to do with, so I think it's good to also like educate people are like a little bit more about stuttering and let them know that it doesn't really like, like, like effect you as a professional on the contrary. Sometimes we actually do more to compensate to know, because we feel like maybe we need to do more because we, we like we stutter. So maybe we feel that we lack something. So we sometimes, um, compensate, but, um, But, yeah. And that's also why on base the stuttering, society, career advice page.
Raiani Sibien: I wanted to also have that page because I really want to try to help, uh, professionals who stutter to go through job, you know, job, job interviews, and what is the best way to like approach a situation. If you're going to a job in a way to view, if you are at work and maybe you go. Um, you have been promoted and you are like scared of how do you deal with your like stuttering , if you are in a position of, uh, that you, that you maybe have to talk a lot.
Raiani Sibien: So all of these things, um, so yeah.
Uri Schneider: I won't put you on the spot this second to schedule our next follow-up, but there will be part two and for a few reasons. And I think, uh, Steven Green, our friends in Ireland nailed it. There are superheroes in the Marvel universe. Um, and then there are superheroes in our, in our real world lives. And you're definitely one of those superheroes, you know, I want to make a poster for the, for my wall of like inspiring humans and you'd be right up there with some other awesome people.
Uri Schneider: Um, this conversation has been totally amazing. I hope that, uh, we'll take the next step. We'll have more conversations with part two of just like a good, uh, superhero movie, you know, part one part two, see how you're going to rock the world, keep changing the world. And if you're enjoying this conversation and others check out the transcending setting podcast, share it and definitely check out.
Uri Schneider: But is doing with a stuttering society. And I thank you all for taking the time to listen and wish you a great, great.
Raiani Sibien: Thank you, Uri. Thank you so much. And thank you for, for, for everyone who is watching us now. Thank you so much for your time for, uh, for, uh, listening to me to my story.
Uri Schneider: Well, it's a story worth listening to thanks for sharing.