BIO

Michael (Mike) was born and raised in San Jose CA. Prior to receiving his Master’s Degree in Speech Pathology, he served in the US Navy for 24 years. Although he has been retired for 10 years now, he still remembers that part of his life just like it was yesterday. Mike has two grown children and has been married to his wife Teresa for 28 years. They currently live in the greater area of Sacramento CA.

Like a lot of people who stutter, he spent numerous years receiving speech therapy as a child. He remembers his mother taking him to Dr. Greenleaf’s private practice, where he would introduce puzzles to him. Back then he wasn’t sure what he was supposed to do, other than solving various types of puzzles. Now thinking back, he says that the puzzles were meant to be a motivator to get him to talk… but he just solved the puzzles like he was asked. Mike says, his mother quit taking him there just before he started Kindergarten. Mike recalls being in the third grade and the class having to split up into reading and math circles. This was when he noticed he did not communicate in the same manner as his other classmates, as he was the only one who stuttered. Mike started speech therapy once again and continued to receive speech therapy from the public schools until the 7th grade. He said, he finally spoke to his mother and said he wanted to stop. He said was tired of having to go to the special education classroom (which was smaller than a broom closet) and he was fed up with reading catchy phrases over and over, “I guess my SLP felt good about her treatment procedures, knowing I was speaking fluently during her activities.” Another reason was all about the stigma, the stigma of being lesser than his peers, even though he knew he was not!

Mike first heard about the NSP (before it was called the NSA) back in 1986; however, it took him over a decade to get to a chapter meeting. He recalls transferring from sea duty to shore duty in Washington state and had read about the Seattle Conference. He said, he signed-up, even showed up, but did not have the courage to walk in. He said, he just sat in the lobby for about 2 hours and watched person after person walk by. Fear, shame, and guilt are powerful! He eventually walked back to his car are drove home. Later that Fall he did attend his first NSA meeting in Seattle, which he later became Chapter Leader of. Being a Navy man, he was transferred a lot. Once he retired and settled in Sacramento, he joined their chapter and has now been Sacramento’s Chapter Leader for 10 years. He is also the Southwest Regional Coordinator for Adults and Family programs and has been a Stutter Social Host for over four years.

Mike was asked what he would tell the younger him. He said, not much gets in his way as an adult… While serving in the Navy, he was a shipboard Damage Control and Engineering Team trainer, a Fire Marshal, a facilitator, led 100+ people… meaning he had to talk a lot. He has given numerous interviews to local newspapers, been interviewed on TV, and was asked to be the commencement speaker when he graduated with his master’s degree in Speech Pathology. Just prior to giving his commencement speech, he was interviewed by the local NPR station in Sacramento. He said, he was asked why he would agree to give a commencement speech in front of about 10,000 people, knowing he would stutter. He simply said, “they are giving me 2 minutes (which extended to nearly 3 minutes) to bring awareness to stuttering, it was an opportunity that I could not pass up.”

As far as telling the younger me something: “Don’t worry about teasing, don’t worry about bullies, don’t worry about making phone calls, don’t worry about going through the drive-thru, don’t worry about what other people might think or what you might perceive them to think about you! Just be yourself, and at the end of the day, let being yourself be enough. Sure, there will be shame and fear, but you will eventually forge them into purpose, and purpose is why we are here!”

Mike is a tattoo enthusiast (total number, unknown), likes relaxing outdoors, likes hikes, and enjoys riding his mountain bike when the weather is nice.

Listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts or your favorite podcast platform. You can also watch the interview on YouTube.

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS

0:00-04:22: Intro, why Mike is a "superhero" SLP and lessons from the school of life

04:23-12:43: The path of life, growing up with a stutter, the anxiety, speech therapy, reading books and feeling, "I'm not stupid!"

12:44-18:39: Middle school, rolling in poison oak and other ways to hide and avoid the fear of speech; using fists to fix people who make fun

18:40-20:34: 7th grade, the courage to tell my mom, "No more of this speech therapy" and how she responded.

20:35-25:09: Dealing with my speech on my own. On the outside and on the inside, hiding, switching, voiding, feeling less than... The "fear, and "trying to stay safe"

25:10-27:28: getting to National Stuttering Project (NSP) National Stuttering Association (NSA) Mel Hoffman, holding the ticket in my wallet, readiness for change takes time - 10 years! More on this later in the episode

27:29-31:41: Enlisting in the US Navy, a career in search and rescue, the upside and downside of a military career

31:42-32:51: Transition to post-military life, going back to school...

32:52-42:42: Becoming a father and how that changed everything, the concern of a parent for their child to be spared unnecessary hardship, "I was listening, but I wasn't worried."

42:43-44:39: Mike and Uri reflect on the power of learning how to "listen more and worry less" and what our kids need most

44:40-46:14: The pivot to paying it forward, finding my own groove and opening doors for others to find theirs, StutterSocial, David Resnick, Daniele Rossi and Mitch Trichon and the foresight of using video conferencing for support groups around the worlds (long before Zoom)

46:15-51:37: Graduate school, becoming a speech language pathologist, meeting vets in need of communication help and ultimately finding my place in the schools, helping young people who stutter

51:38-01:00:28: How I do speech therapy today to make it better for someone else, recognizing speech techniques are difficult, it takes work, and young people may not have the capacity to do that right now, Uri mentions the "stuttering tax" (Dr. Chris Constantino) and Mike talks about how exhausting it can be... and more wisdom-bombs from Mike.

01:00:29-01:12:24: How I do speech therapy today to make it better for someone else, recognizing speech techniques are difficult, it takes work, and young people may not have the capacity to do that right now, Uri mentions the "stuttering tax" (Dr. Chris Constantino) and Mike talks about how exhausting it can be... And lots of wisdom and tips for SLPs and parents educators and PWS, first and foremost, "do no harm"

RESOURCE LIST

• National Stuttering Association Bio

• Stutter Social

• Sacramento State Commencement Speaker Reflects On The Road To His Speech

MORE QUOTES

“We need to listen. We have to connect. We have to communicate. That’s what it’s all about.” — Mike Molino

"If it takes a little bit more time, I’m going to give you more time. I’m not interested in the clock. I’m interested in you." -Uri Schneider

TRANSCRIPTION:

Uri Schneider: Okay, here we are. So what a special morning, I'm in a, I'm in a special location. Uh, my name is Uri Schneider, and it's a privilege to host this transcending stuttering in conversation today with an extraordinary guest, a most unique, unusual, different than all 50 something. I don't count them by numbers. Each one is a, is an individual person, but I will tell you I'm super excited for today's conversation with Mike Molino because he brings a special blend, a unique blend.

Uri Schneider: That's kind of like a good home brew or some good Ben and Jerry's flavor. It's like, you've never seen anything like this before. So, uh, we're all in for a treat and, uh, Fasten your seatbelts. We're gonna talk about, you know, growing up as a guy or as a kid with a stutter and then ultimately. Finding your way through different experiences and different experiences of speech therapy, different experiences with friends and school and so on.

Uri Schneider: Ultimately joining the U S Navy and everything that that could entail. Wow. Uh, it's a world that's very unfamiliar to me, but I know a lot of people think about service and different careers. And how could a person who stutters or a person who used to stutter or a person who's hiding their stutter, go into a career of military service or any kind of service for different professions.

Uri Schneider: So it'd be a big treat to hear from Mike about that. And then of course, ultimately, what about family life? Like, do I feel ready to bring a kid into the world? And what if my kid was to stutter and Mike might share a little bit about that and then discovering self-help discovering community. Um, and then ultimately what I think is the most fascinating.

Uri Schneider: And really, truly among the superheroes among us, those who have this challenge and then pivot and commit themselves to a seat, to a career of service, um, because of their experiences and their insight and understanding, and then ultimately are there to kind of pay it forward and, and serve the community of people who stutter.

Uri Schneider: So I'm super stoked and it's gonna be a great conversation. I'll give the proper bio, but I can't do the whole thing justice because honestly my neck next week's guest, uh, Shelly Jo Craft has the longest bio I've seen yet, but Mike's is just as long, uh, more so in and not to put Mike down, but his experience is more from the school of life and the number of places he's checked in.

Uri Schneider: So in front of the West coast, he grew up in, in San Jose, California, and I was in the U S Navy for 24 years. He's retired now for 10 years, but that part of his life is alive and well in him. Uh, he has two grown children and he's been married to his wife, Theresa for 28 years. Congrats. Uh, and they live in Sacramento.

Uri Schneider: Um, I won't go on and on about the entire bio, it's all there in the details. You can read it for yourself. Um, but his responsibilities in the Navy, his journey into self-help and kind of opening up and finding community and identity as a person who stutters and then ultimately the advocacy he's done on television, radio media, and just on a day-to-day basis.

Uri Schneider: And it says your life is a journey. Some journeys have bumpy roads, some have smooth roads, and whether the roads are bumpy or smooth, we can only hope that our journey leads us to breathtaking views along the way. Uh, in addition to all of that, I think he's the biggest tattoo enthusiast of all the guests that I have had.

Uri Schneider: Uh, I don't know much about that, so that could be interesting and he loves the outdoors, hiking, and mountain biking when the weather's nice. So, Mike, thanks for joining us. This is gonna be great.

Mike Molino: Thank you very much that intro it's probably, I'm probably overserved a little there's, uh, I don't think of myself like that, but, um, but it is all, I guess it is all true ultimately, right.

Uri Schneider: Mike, let's be honest. You did send me that bio and I chopped it down. I did.

Mike Molino: I did. I did. But, um, yeah, I didn't think you were gonna read it all out to everyone who's ever listening and it's kind of now it's kind of embarrassing, but

Uri Schneider: yeah. Oh, you got a lot of fans. You brought the whole posse. There's the whole mic posse here.

Uri Schneider: So just take it where you want to go.

Mike Molino: I am honored to be here first and foremost. Thank you for the invite. I know it's been a making in about two months. We've been kind of going back and forth. So yeah,

Uri Schneider: listen, some book quicker, some books slower, like you said, as long as we get to a breathtaking conversation,

Mike Molino: Yeah, that was, I remember writing that of number of years ago and I still hold that true.

Mike Molino: There are bumpy roads and there are a smooth roads and that's what it is for fluency. That's what it is. That's my life. That's, that's a lot of our lives. It's um, you know, anyone that has knows the Sacramento area, they know the roads are not very well kept. There was a lot of potholes and then you get on the freeway and it gets a little smooth sometimes.

Mike Molino: And, uh, but no matter where your journey goes, let's wig only hope you get some breathtaking views. Um, you know, whether the roads are bumpy or smooth, uh, there's always a note. Uh, there's always a new road to travel to. So, you know,

Uri Schneider: yeah. One of my favorite things, when I go trail running or mountain biking, Or driving.

Uri Schneider: Uh, I love to find new trails, you know, it's, it's nice to tread on, on stuff is familiar, but there's some excitement, some adventure, some, you know, exploring new territory. And sometimes it goes smooth and sometimes it gets a little hairy, but that's part of the ride. It's part of the climb. So, um, my opening question, Mike, that I always open with, and then we can go into what we talked about as some touch points, but I always say what's something about you that people don't know, uh, maybe beyond the bio or, you know, something that's less known.

Uri Schneider: I don't know something that's not as prominently out there that you'd like people to know about you. That's part of your life. Here's the something

Mike Molino: I've always been that person that likes to tinker with things. I remember. When I was young, I would tear things apart. They always need to go back together.

Mike Molino: You know, when I was really young because I, you know, I didn't know, you know, I need to put this back the right way. I'm pretty mechanically inclined. I liked to do things like that. Um, I remember one time I had tore apart a radio and, uh, I mean all the pieces up there all out and put it all back together.

Mike Molino: And it actually worked. That was probably when I was a young teenager, but, uh, one thing, many people don't know. Um, I wanted to be an architect. I love to draw, uh, sketches of homes. I love to make floor plans. That was, I, I used to do that on the daily. It was, it was, uh, for some reason it was really interesting for me.

Mike Molino: So, or to me. And, um, I never went down that road though. I always, you know, thought this is what I'll do. And, and, um, and then I just went on a different road. There was a little, maybe, I don't know, at that time I said, uh, let's go on this road and see where life brings me. And, uh, well, I guess it brought me here.

Mike Molino: It brought me here right now with you. So yeah.

Uri Schneider: What a treat. Well, thanks. Yeah. So, um, you know, I know you were excited and I'm super excited because this is actually one of our first chances to really dive deep. Um, tell us a little bit about what was like growing up. I know there was some things that you wanted to do.

Uri Schneider: We're

Mike Molino: going to get in there today. Um, you know, I'm that person who don't always talk about myself. I don't, I'm not a big fan of like, Ooh, let me let everyone know what I'm doing. Um, But this is important. And it's one of those things that I have. I shared a few times, I've a really close

Mike Molino: circle of friends who may not even heard this whole story. Uh, there's a few that have, but so anyway, um, I'm going to go all the way back to when I was four years of age. That's when I noticed I was going somewhere for speech at that time. I didn't know what it was. Yeah. I was four years old. You don't know what you're doing at four years old.

Mike Molino: Right. Um, so we were going to speech, um, about once a week. And I remember kind of sitting there, you know, uh, there was an older man who was sitting on the other side of the desk and he had all these little fun, little things that I could kinda. You know, play with, Oh, I got what's this what's, this what's that, um, I didn't realize that then that was to get me to talk with him.

Mike Molino: They were like those little, uh, uh, puzzles and, uh, you know how, you know, if you spin it one way and you can take it apart. So I figured that was my job and I solved them all. I was sitting there and I was like, okay, what do you want me to do next? Right. Anyway. So after about a year, um, my mom, who was my biggest fan when I was younger, of course, um, we decided, or they decided that it wasn't, you know, like after a year's, uh, about a year of therapy, nothing was happening.

Mike Molino: So we decided to stop. And then, uh, Yeah. I started school started in kindergarten. Yeah. I didn't think anything of it. But then when I got into the third grade, the third grade, that's when I noticed that. Yeah, I wasn't the same. Um, yeah, I didn't speak the same as everyone else and what's going on, you know, so, uh, then kids, we had split up into a reading group and so maybe 50% of us, you know, w w we were over there in a reading circle and, um, I'm going to let the dog out real quick, you know, I'm going to continue.

Mike Molino: And so with that, when it was my turn, I had so much anxiety built up and I didn't even realize it then. Cause it all went in a circle. And there, uh, let's say for example, if there was eight of us in a circle, which, you know, uh, there were probably more, I think I read last, which was, uh, I think from that point on, I never wanted to go last again, but, uh, and I was like, I am not the same, what is going on here?

Mike Molino: And, uh, from that moment on, I remember going to this school speech, uh, therapist at least once a week. And, um, I could remember reading, uh, books over and over, you know, like the same little phrases over and over and over. Yes. Eventually we all become fluent reading the same phrase over and over. So if you're a young therapist out there.

Mike Molino: Do not do that. I will reach through the camera and probably don't do that. Um, everyone becomes fluent after those over and over. Right. But it was, it was a book, there was a bunch of BS in the book and it was about the boy bouncing the blue ball. And see, I still remembered that little phrase because it was so devastating.

Mike Molino: Like, why am I reading this? I'm not stupid, but that's the way it made me feel. And so by doing, um, it really started to, uh, put a name effect on me as far as, wow. I'm not as smart as anyone else because I'm going to a special ed room where at that age, we don't know these things. Right. Um, you know, and it just, I didn't want to be there, but we had moved eventually.

Mike Molino: When I was in the fifth grade, we moved. And so it was probably mid year and I had to go into another school. And, um, uh, I skipped a lot of school because of the fear, the sheer fear that now I have to, you know, speak in front of these other people who I don't know, and they're going to find out or they're going to see me struggle and they're going to find out.

Mike Molino: And so I skipped, I always said I was sick, something. I didn't feel good. Hell, okay. This is another pointing right here. Probably never said this mom, if you're listening. Um, I rolled in poison Oak just to skip school because of the fear of my speech. Cause I didn't want to engage.

Uri Schneider: Let's just hold that for a second.

Uri Schneider: You intentionally rolled yourself in poison Oak, so you'd have a legitimate out, it was more comfortable to avoid showing up for class that day. And it just seemed a reasonable thing to do to roll your body and poison Oak. And that resonates with, uh, I just want to, as a point of reference, also, something, some people don't know in the transcending stuttering documentary film, uh, Alan Rabinowitz tells the story of it's going around the room.

Uri Schneider: It's almost his turn. He's holding out. He's counted how many turns it's coming, his way. He takes a pencil and he puts the pencil through his Palm and they have to rush him to the hospital. And he says it didn't hurt one bit. It, it felt much more comfortable than the feeling of anticipated humiliation.

Uri Schneider: And what's crazy. Is that Frankie Jones, a black man from Nebraska said the exact same thing, but it would have been uncanny to put both stories in the film, but this idea of doing crazy things speaks to how much anticipation, discomfort, humiliation, pain, uh, people are living with and they'll do anything.

Uri Schneider: And it might seem crazy. But for that person in that moment, it makes sense. And the more people realize the intensity of that experience, the more we can support and understand that and not think it's crazy at all. That's really powerful.

Mike Molino: Yeah, it was, it was really so devastating. So durability. I mean, I just, I, I come up with every excuse in the book, my stomach, I don't feel good, blah, blah, blah, sick.

Mike Molino: I threw up, which I didn't, you know, all these things that can, I got a bright idea. I'm allergic to poison Oak. I'm going to go up the stream. I'm going to roll on it like a fool. Well, I didn't, I'm just kind of, you know, and. When I was younger, I was really allergic to it in a boof. And, uh, so I was out of school for like almost a month, probably like weeks.

Mike Molino: It was like a three to four weeks. I was like, yes, I don't have to talk to anyone. Woo. You know, um, bad idea, not the brightest of my ideas. And I was in the fifth grade, you know, um, you know, I got in a few fights over it too. I did. And once again, mom, I apologize. But, uh, I've never been told why I got in these fights.

Mike Molino: I always just said, I don't know. I don't know. It was just the thing. I don't know, but it was because someone in front of my sticker. Yeah. You know, there's always one kid that's going to do something. And so one of them. When, when was the recipient of F do you remember those little red, little rubber Dodge balls about this big?

Mike Molino: And you can kind of put it in your hand and you can wing it real bad. So this guy's on the monkey bars swinging back and forth. This is in the fifth grade, swinging it back and forth. I, you know, so happened to be holding a red rubber ball, kind of like, you know, like magic in my hand, like, woo, just woof.

Mike Molino: And he fell to the ground. I went over there, pap, pap, pap, pap. And we went and we went into the principal's office. Um, and they asked why. And I just said, I don't know, because it was easier to say, I don't know. It was easier to say they don't know and not explain why I felt at that very moment in time. I needed to do it that, um, because then I would have to speak about my stutter then.

Uri Schneider: And a side point, if I may interject, I don't know if you would agree, Mike, but as a tip for anyone out there, I tolerate just about anything in the, in the clinical space. When we meet people, meeting them where they're at. The one thing I don't tolerate is I don't know. And I think there's, I can't think of one time that that's a good answer.

Uri Schneider: That's always hiding something. That's always fear right there. That's fear that I don't, they won't give me the time I need, they won't, they won't like me the same after I tell them what I really think they won't believe me, but it's a telltale sign. There's something there. And I think if you're on the other side of, I don't know, Helping that other person either give them some multiple choice or something, but teach them early.

Uri Schneider: I don't know, is not acceptable. Everything else is, is acceptable is better than that. Yeah.

Mike Molino: It's and as an adult now doing therapy, whenever I say, Hey, we're going to read a book, we're going to do this. We're going to do this activity. And then I'm going to ask you some things and they say, I don't know.

Mike Molino: I'm like, what do you mean? You don't know? I said, that's not an answer. So, you know, uh, the other side of it now, I'm like, what do you mean? That's not even an answer, you know? And then I said, well, what about I gave you an option or two? And they're like, Oh exactly. It's in there. You just didn't want to tell me at that very moment for whatever reason.

Mike Molino: Right. So anyway, so when I got into the seventh grade, I finally gotten fed up with, um, being pulled out of class. Uh, you know, over the years, it was always announced into the, you know, in over the loud speaker, in a room. My call go to speech and I would have to get up and shame, walk out the door, walk to the portable, which was the special ed room and, uh, whatever they had me doing that day, which I'm sure was a lot more of, let's read this same phrase over again and you'll be fluent.

Mike Molino: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I'll be fluid for like five minutes then when I leave it's right back to the way it was. Right. So, um, I just got fed up with it and, uh, I, I, when I got home from school one day, I, I don't know if it was mid-year or seventh grade or whenever, but I know it was, it was in the seventh grade. I, I waited for my mom to get home from school and our, from work.

Mike Molino: And I said, um, I said, I don't want to go to speech anymore. You know, and I explained why. And, um, and she said, okay, I stopped. I just stopped. And I didn't go back until after I got out of high school, I was going to, uh, JC at the end time, because I didn't take one of the interests exams solely based on the fear and all the years of your being placed in the average class, because they think something is wrong with your intelligence because of the stutter.

Mike Molino: Um, I didn't like that feeling at all. I, I listened. I watched in with our really good friend, John Moore, and he talked something about that with his sister and him. Um, she was always in the higher classes. He was always in the average classes because of the perception that you're not smart because that you have difficulty speaking or did you have difficulty with whatever the words are?

Mike Molino: So we find lesser words that makes a little sense at the time because of the word substitutions and all that other stuff, or I don't know. Right. I don't know. They'd so you don't know, guess what? You're in the average classes at best and, uh, good luck in life. That's the way it seemed. And, um, yeah.

Uri Schneider: So that's the way you were getting through through high school?

Uri Schneider: It sounds like.

Mike Molino: I mean, I knew the answers I knew. I knew I just never. Never raised that hand to say, Hey, it picked me, I don't know, one person back. Then they would say, pick me. I stutter. Let me speak in front of everyone. Right. It's just not that thing. I never did it. I would skip school. I would skip school on days.

Mike Molino: I knew I had to give a presentation. I just wouldn't go. Or, or I would go and say a was like, we're doing a class. And I had to do it for like third period. I would leave after second. And then I would come back after fourth. I just wouldn't go to class because of the fear, the sheer fear of speaking in front of the whole class, because

Uri Schneider: I didn't want, when did you become the, um, or was there a seed at that point?

Uri Schneider: Cause at the same time, you're talking about being driven by fear. And trying to stay safe. You also said you pegged the kid and you punched the hell out of him, you know? And I think of you as one of the toughest, strongest bravest, boldest, and obviously that evolved over time, but was there at the same time there was this fear, was that also inside of you then, or that only came later just interested how that all evolved your persona?

Mike Molino: I think the fear of all that was always there, it just, it just comes out, you know, it's like the ebbs and flows of everything, right. Uh, there'll be moments where we'll speak fluently for hours, even for days for some, or for just little fractions of a second. And you're like, I live for those moments.

Mike Molino: Right. Um, my stutter when I was younger was a lot more severe than it is right now. I will say that right now. So for any listeners out there who have never met me and you're sitting here gonna, yeah. We've had some pretty good moments already and there's going to be more, yeah, because of the road. Like right now, the roads are, are pretty smooth.

Mike Molino: Um, but it's, it's, it's always there. It's always in the back of your mind. If I could ever explain anything to anyone, people who stutter. Oh, I shouldn't say everyone because I don't know everyone, but a lot of us will think four or five, six words ahead. And that's just a panic. Oh, I'm going to say this word.

Mike Molino: Let me try words substitute really quick. So I'm always kind of on the go. Probably not the best thing, because you get a little sidetracked and sometimes you don't make sense, but we're always kind of doing something like that. I try not to do it as much these days because it's just not a good look anymore, but it works.

Mike Molino: It works for some people and it works well. Uh, there are some that do it. So amazingly, well, you wouldn't know that much about until you started to really analyze them.

Mike Molino: But I works,

Uri Schneider: it works one thing which is to cover up and to conceal,

Uri Schneider: but it doesn't work that's right, exactly. It suppresses, it suppresses the real words and the real feelings and the real desire to express yourself.

Uri Schneider: So as Frankie, Joan says in the movie, you won that battle, but there's a much bigger, there's a much bigger war, which is self respect and dignity and feeling like you're being authentic.

Uri Schneider: So take us fast forward. I just want to make sure there's so many chapters here. I don't know if you want to share more from the childhood, but I want to, I'm super fascinated with the Navy.

Uri Schneider: You can stick with whatever you want.

Mike Molino: Fast forward I'm in school. Um, I am going to in college, it was probably my first semester or so. A funny thing is actually when I registered that very first semester, I was nervous as hell because I knew they were going to ask me some stuff and I had to give an answer.

Mike Molino: And the person on the other side of the desk says, Hey, Just, I dunno if you're aware of this, we have a speech clinic on campus. Are you interested? I said, sure. Why not? Um, and I went that's when, um, I was first introduced eventually after a, probably mids a semester going twice a week, I would go, um, um, this wonderful lady, wonderful SLP.

Mike Molino: Um, she introduced me to the N S P uh, she gave me a phone number to a guy named Mel Hoffman who passed away just like last year or the year before. I forgot. I forget now, but anyway, um, yeah, last year, um,

Mike Molino: and I had that phone number for a number of years. Never went to a chapter meeting in San Jose because of fear, because I didn't know what it was going to be like. So I eventually, I, one day,

Uri Schneider: I just want to pause there for one sec. I just want to share, right? So you know, such a common story, you know, you think, let me give this person, this phone number.

Uri Schneider: This is going to be the golden ticket. And the person holds that ticket in their wallet. They have it somewhere or they deliberately lose it, but it'll take days, weeks, months. So if you're, if you're trying to be that help or to someone else, and you think you're giving them this opportunity, it's important to understand the stages of change or a process or resistance, and just understand it's, it's, it's understandable and it's very normal to not be ready to take that leap.

Uri Schneider: There are a lot of pieces that need to be in place, not just I'm ready to get a number, but am I ready to make the call? Am I ready to make the call, but I'm not ready to go. And, and that process can take time and it's important to honor that process one way or another.

Mike Molino: Yeah, I wasn't ready for a good 10 years.

Mike Molino: And then I finally, you know, so eventually we'll probably get to that point, but, um, so, uh, one day on the way home, probably after my, uh, probably going to school about a year, um, maybe a little bit longer than a year, I decided to, uh, drive by the Navy office, which is on the way home. And, uh, I walked in and say, I basically said, uh, where do I sign?

Mike Molino: And, uh, they were like on, I said, yeah, I want to join. And, um, so I did. And, uh, but I said, but under one condition, I want to finish out all the rebar, either remainder of the fall semester, yada yada, yada. And, um, so, um, yeah, so I did, um, and then I joined and, um, I never, I thought I would join for three years.

Mike Molino: And then I would go back to school at some point. I just wasn't sure what I w uh, which, which of the roads I wanted to go. And then, um, I ended up doing, um, getting stationed in Lemoore, California. It's in the central Valley, not a, not well-known, it's kind of by Fresno as an airbase. And, uh, yeah, we did search and rescue operations.

Mike Molino: You know, I worked on, you know, on the aircraft and we did search and rescue, and then that's what I did for my first, uh, four years. I, uh, I met some really interesting friends, some lifelong friends, and, um, then I ended up reenlisting and reenlisting and reenlisting and, uh, stayed for 24 years. Yeah.

Uri Schneider: Mike, which was the Navy, uh, chapter that you ran to because you had a calling or was it a convenient out, like to just kind of delay, you know, Your next academic step or your next step into adulting?

Mike Molino: I just got fed up with doing the same thing with my friends. Yeah, we're good friends. I have lifelong friends and, uh, yeah, there's a group of us is seven, eight. I dunno, whatever the number is, you know, sometimes there's another number sometimes when fades off, who knows. But, um, we were doing the same thing.

Mike Molino: We're going to school. We were coming home. We were doing the same thing, the same routine, and I just wanted something different. I was getting like, I don't want to be in academics anymore. I don't want to be going to school. I don't want to have to speak in front of the class and give a presentation. I don't want to do these things.

Mike Molino: Um, probably I was probably running and, um, I never really got into why. I just, I actually, I showed up one day from home and I told my mom, I said, you know, I signed up, you know, and I joined the Navy. She was like, what. So it was a surprise. No one knew. Um, yeah. Yeah. Interesting. It was uh, yeah. Yeah. You know, I loved the Navy.

Mike Molino: I loved the idea of going out to see the world. You know, I enjoyed that. Um, I got married after I was in about six years. Five yeah. Five and a half years or so. Um, w we have two wonderful kids from all of that. The fortunate thing about the Navy is of the SIG curity for a job. Um, the good things that come out of it, the bad things, you're never home.

Mike Molino: You're always gone out to sea. You're gone six, seven months at, in time. Um, you know, so I missed a lot of life, you know, because of that, you know, I miss a lot of their life. Um, so we decided to, I was going to read entire out of San Diego, but they, uh, the Navy had other plans for me. And, uh, and I ended up staying another two years and, um, yeah, retired in 10 years ago, actually 10 years ago on the, uh, 31st of March.

Mike Molino: And I went to school, I sat on my butt for about three months. Uh, my wife, uh, finally got fed up with me and said, what are you going to do? She

Uri Schneider: wasn't used to being home

Mike Molino: so much. Yeah, no. And then we were doing this a lot, bang bang because of that too. Right. Um, I went down to SAC state and, um, you know, I enrolled and the guy says you missed enrollment by three weeks.

Mike Molino: I'm like, If she would have said something about a month before I probably would have went earlier and I probably would've enrolled for that semester. But, um, yeah, so I went to a JC here. I just did a few things that I needed any way at that time. I already had an associates. Um, and yeah. Um, you know, I didn't look back, you know, I went in, I went and, you know, did all the undergrad classes, you know, I got my bachelor's from SAC state.

Mike Molino: And at that, at that time, I wasn't sure if I was going to even apply for a master's program.

Uri Schneider: Now at this point, like at this point you're a father. Oh

Mike Molino: yeah.

Uri Schneider: So wait, so rewind, because when we spoke ahead of time, I don't know if you want to go there, but you said there was some really powerful stuff in the chapter, right before becoming a dad.

Uri Schneider: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I

Mike Molino: did go over there. You want to go

Uri Schneider: there? No, I do actually do revisit that. Go ahead.

Mike Molino: 1988. I'm in, um, up in Everett, Washington. I'm on shore duty, uh, reading the paper. I see the NSA has a huge conference right there in Seattle. No, 1998. Uh, did I say ADA? Yeah, whatever. So anyway, and, um,

Uri Schneider: listen, the fact that it's 19 something just, yeah,

Mike Molino: I think the majority of the people like the 19 hundreds, what was, was there even vehicles in the 1900.

Mike Molino: Right. But, um,

Uri Schneider: your hair was, your hair was dark then

Mike Molino: jet black. It was like this when I was with a few gray, but yeah. Um, so, uh, signed up, I registered did all this stuff and um, I went to the convention. I stopped. Yeah, I sat outside cause I was kind nervous. I wasn't sure what's going on. So I walked into the lobby and kind of sat there for the sad thing is the fear overwhelmed me so much.

Mike Molino: I sat there for about two hours in the lobby, watching people walk by watching people. I don't know if they're with the convention or if they're just there, but there's a lot, there's a lot of people and it was like, wow. And that just even made me get back into my hole a little bit more at this point, I'm already in the Navy for like 10 years.

Mike Molino: Um, you know, I'm a supervisor. I, you know, I guy ran a shop. I did all this. I spoke all the time bucks. There's fear of speaking to new people who, I don't know what drove me. There was, my daughter was born in 96. She was about to. Just over two. And I started to notice a little disruption in her speech and I was like, Oh hell.

Mike Molino: Now this is not what I want. Um, ADA, because of all the struggles I went through. And, um, so I figured I might as well go there and see if I could figure something out. Right. Um, and eventually the fear I walked out of there, I paid, I did all that stuff, pay for a parking, did everything I needed to do, but walk up into the registration desk and say, Hey, I'm here because I knew I was going to have to say my name.

Mike Molino: And that was so difficult, then it was really difficult. So, and so I drove home. Never said anything about it. Just, I don't even know if my wife knows that whole story. But

Uri Schneider: I know so many, so many stories, so similar, you know, like someone's looking for a job and they go out every day with the best intentions to go in and interview and meet with the right people to do some networking and they just can't do it.

Uri Schneider: And then come home so ashamed and the wife says, or their husband says, you know, Hey honey, how was the day? And Oh, good. How are your meetings? Um, honest, honest person, but they'll, they'll bluff their way through it because it's so humiliating and shameful. And it is listen progress though. Mike, you didn't go jump into some poison Oak

Mike Molino: cause, cause I didn't know that stuff is bad.

Mike Molino: I good. I could, I have so many stories about poison Oak when I was a kid,

Uri Schneider: but yeah. Too many, too many. So you went, you paid and you basically came home having not even attended the program?

Mike Molino: No, my little, if they even gave him that I didn't get anything, I was kind of like, I wasn't even there. I

Uri Schneider: swag as if you weren't there.

Mike Molino: Yeah, they got my money for free, which, which is okay. I hear and take the money. I don't care.

Uri Schneider: You did it. Yeah. So

Mike Molino: that was my first little like, okay, I'm moving forward with this then, uh, a few months later, I meet up with the AR I got ahold of the chapter leader. Who's a dear friend of everyone's in the NSA.

Mike Molino: And, uh, you know, so I showed up to a meeting. My first meeting, there were probably 10 of us there and I was like, wow, this is kind of overwhelming. But the weight just dropped the weight of I thinking I'm the only PR. And, you know, I knew it wasn't the only person in the world, but just the weight of being in a support group where there's others who spoke just like me, there were.

Mike Molino: Doctors and researchers and lawyers. And we had a Navy guy, you know, there too, all these people, um, that changed my life. Um, and after the meeting, I was outside speaking to the chapter leader, Elaine Robin, um, she and I spoke for probably a good hour and a half after we just sat in the car. She didn't know me from Sam.

Mike Molino: She took the time we sat in the car, we had so many similarities. Um, and I explained my fear about my daughter and she was a grad student at the time, working on her masters for speech pathology. And she explained some of the things, probably developmental stuttering at this time, don't put a bunch of pressure on her and she, she kind of walked me through that.

Mike Molino: Um, and so I didn't, I did put that pressure on my daughter and, um, you know, all the other stuff and, um, things worked out fine for both of my children. They don't, you know, um, stutter. Um, I could honestly say I'm glad they don't. Um, just because it's, it's not a good feeling. Um, but if they did, I would be their full support, whatever they needed.

Uri Schneider: No, I think that's such a nuanced and honest thing as parents, you know, we want our kids to, to have it as smooth as possible. I mean, that's like a normal parental wish and certainly not to have to go through the tough things that we've gone through, even if we've grown through them, even if we'd come to embrace them, even if we get to a point where we say, you know what, that challenge, that hardship was a gift.

Uri Schneider: Uh, it's still fair to say. We would prefer our kids not have to go through that hardship and those lessons and those valleys easier.

Mike Molino: Exactly. No one wants to have their, their children go through, you know, like the same hardship that you went through when you were younger. And that was one thing I definitely was really aware of and I didn't want them to go through it.

Mike Molino: Um, yeah, I don't, it's just,

Uri Schneider: yeah, I would just say one, one thing on that. May I go ahead? My wife and I in the past year went through something with one of our kids and it was quite scary. And clearly there was a desired outcome in this scenario. Uh, and at the same time, it was my years of working in meeting and learning from people who stutter that gave me the wisdom to realize I had to make sure it was a win-win even if the news was the more difficult news that couldn't be that the good news was good.

Uri Schneider: And the bad news is bad. Didn't mean I had to want the bad news so to speak, but I had to frame it in a way for myself as a team, my wife and I for our child, so that whatever came there, wasn't this unbelievable burden, unbelievable weight that if it went this way, we're good. And one of this way, Oh boy, we're up the Creek.

Uri Schneider: And so I think the nuance there of what you just said, like you didn't. You really wish that your kids wouldn't have to deal with it. And of course, if they did, as a person who lived through it grew through, it came to grips with it. You would be the best, the best father you could be for them. And you'd help them win no matter what, but it doesn't mean you don't prefer the easier path.

Uri Schneider: And if it goes the other way you dig in and you say, we're going to make this good too. So I think that's very nuanced for therapists and for parents, especially for young children, when you don't know which way things are going to go. I think it's really important to say, look, plan a is that maybe they'll grab of it.

Uri Schneider: And maybe there's some things we can do that can support that and stay out of the way of like nature's course. And on the other hand, if they continue to stutter, which is a possibility, let's make sure we're planting the seeds and doing things that are setting that up for a win as well. And that it doesn't become something that derails them, you know, win-win doesn't mean that you have to want both, but at least that you're ready and open to work with both whichever way it goes.

Mike Molino: It. I mean, and, and, uh, that too, when, uh, four years later when we had our son and he got to that point in life where he was, you know, us speaking more and, um, I was listening, but I wasn't worried. Um, and if it wasn't going to happen, it was going to happen. And if not, then it didn't. Uh, but I was listening, but I wasn't like, Ooh, as like for my daughter at first, I was like, Ooh, I want you to say that again.

Mike Molino: And, um, was, that was the worst thing I could ever do. Probably

Uri Schneider: I just listening, but not worried right there. We have to create from this conversation if parents and professionals, if we can listen attentively with care, And attention, but without worry, because the worry comes across, it comes between the words.

Uri Schneider: It comes on our face. It comes in our heartbeat in our breath, in our energy and kids need to feel safe. And if they're feeling the worry of the adults around them, that's going to be picked up. And so you're worried. Talk to somebody, talk to your partner, talk to a therapist, talk to his friends, but know that the most important thing for your kid is not that you fake it, but that you don't transmit to them, you know, unfiltered, raw worry.

Uri Schneider: Cause they're looking to the adults to make them feel safe and secure

Mike Molino: that, you know, like the whole part of listening is something I do really well. And I think that's because of my, maybe the adventures in life, maybe my experience in the Navy. Cause you always have to listen to everything. Right. And as a therapist, um, I've always said, and I truly believe in this.

Mike Molino: We need to listen more. If a therapist is doing the majority of this speaking, they're doing speech wrong. They don't come into us so they can listen to us. They can come to us so they can, they can communicate. And w but if, uh, we're doing all this speaking in every session, what benefit is that for the individual, right?

Mike Molino: You just means you have a therapist who likes to speak and is going to speak the whole time and they're not invested. And, um, so I always say, if you're doing the majority of the speaking in your session, you're doing therapy wrong. I don't

Uri Schneider: know. Well said, well said,

Mike Molino: yeah, that's what I believe in anyway.

Mike Molino: But, uh, yeah, so, you know, the journey always continues and stuff, but I want you to ask me some more stuff, cause I know we spoke about some other stuff too.

Uri Schneider: Sure. Well, clearly you're so in it, it's like, uh, you had so much, you wanted to share. I think the next chapter has to do with this evolution from being the kid who's, who's rolling around in poison Oak, anything, any, anything would be better than showing up in class and having me verbal, uh, to then kind of taking your dandy old time, whatever it was seven years to kind of show up at a meeting that you did not attend like 11, 11, sorry.

Uri Schneider: I didn't mean to rush the process bit percolating. And then today we look at Mike and, and, and you're looking, you're looking at ease. You're looking at, uh, you're looking present, you're looking integrated with, with it and with yourself and you spend your time volunteering, hosting, stutter, social meetups around the world.

Uri Schneider: Online for people in different time zones around the world to connect big, shout out to stutter, social. And I don't want to forget anybody, but Daniel Rossi and David Resnick and all the people with the foresight that were involved. And I apologize if I'm missing anyone, but the foresight to create online.

Uri Schneider: Meet-ups who am I missing? I think we got

Mike Molino: to, we've got to mention Mitchell

Uri Schneider: Mitch titration. Of course, he's got fingerprints on so many good things that exist in the world today in the world of stuttering. But just the idea of creating an online meetups situation like that way before COVID, uh, is remarkable foresight.

Uri Schneider: But look at you like from the Posen poison Oak, now you're rolling around hosting meetings, facilitating meetings and spending your days advocating in schools and working with young people in schools, doing speech therapy, what in the world like that shift and what that was about and how that happened.

Uri Schneider: You were talking about being at school, not sure if you were going to go to grad school. So we were kind of just up to that point where maybe how did you end up in speech? Like that's a pretty bold step.

Mike Molino: Yeah, I was. So when I, when I finished my Dar I was just about finishing my bachelor's in speech. I was kinda like, do I wanna go to grad school?

Mike Molino: I don't know. Ah, this is a lot of, this is a lot of work, a lot of energy. Yeah. Honestly, I was the older guy in class and I was, well, I wasn't the oldest, there was some women who were like five, six, seven years older than me. I was kind of like, wow, this is interesting. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, I'm thinking, what are you doing at this?

Mike Molino: You know, But anyway, I was like, uh, so I applied to one school, one application. I got him. Um, I was the, there was only in two guys and that was it. And there were 16 women. And, um, and then

Uri Schneider: the journey, yeah, in high school, that was big. The MC class. I was, I was one at a one out of 13.

Mike Molino: Well, I will say this.

Mike Molino: And then I took a break after my first year in grad school, because life gets in the way life does stuff I needed to pull back there. There was all kinds of reasons. Um, so I took a clinical break a semester off. I still did academics. Um, then I went part-time for the remainder of another year. So I graduated a year later than I was supposed to.

Mike Molino: But during that year, I ended up in two other, you know, with, you know, these new groups and new people. Yes. I knew who they were. So it wasn't a big deal. But the funny thing is I ended up graduating with a, there were a, a in total seven guys,

Uri Schneider: wait, if you wait long enough, I think men

Mike Molino: whew. Right. You know, but, uh, and then the following semesters, there were no guys.

Mike Molino: So I think they shot their load and go, let's put all these guys in and then we're not, we won't do it for a few years. Right. So yeah.

Uri Schneider: They realized it was a mistake.

Mike Molino: I probably was like, Ooh, okay. We got we're well, diverse. Now we've got all these men in here and now we're going to shut it back down. I mean, I'm only making light of the situation of course, but.

Mike Molino: No, there

Uri Schneider: are still seriousness in all seriousness, there are some seriousness, but we need therapists who look more like them and talk more like them. So whether you're a person who stutters, whether you're a person, a person who is black or a person who's Hispanic, or a person who's of Asian origin, or a person who anything, and then the field is, is in dire need of more representation.

Uri Schneider: And, and most importantly, it's not some esoteric, abstract, let's have diversity in the field. That's good too. But the people we serve are looking for people that look and talk like them. And I think that's, what's so critical. So if you're thinking about it and you're like, well, there's no other men, well, aren't a lot of people who stutter.

Uri Schneider: Well, aren't a lot of black speech therapists. That's true. And you could change that. You could change that. So jump in.

Mike Molino: Exactly. Yeah. So then I finished did that, uh, you know, I started working at a private practice, uh, I wanted to work for the VA, honestly, that's where I wanted to go. But, uh, actually actually, when I did my internship at the VA, um, which I loved, but seeing vets and spouses of vets and they're older and they show up and they're sick, you're doing, you know, evils on to see where they were, what's going on, you, why they were there and all this other stuff.

Mike Molino: And, um, um, it really tugs at your heart and being a vet myself of so many years. Um, I didn't want to do that every day. Um, I did not want to see vets that are there. They're probably never leave there, you know, because they're dying and, um, Yeah, I decided at that point, I said, yeah, I wanted to go into medical speech.

Mike Molino: That's what I wanted to do. But just the sheer volume of seeing vets in there every day, some would even come back often. I was like, yeah, I can't, I can't, you know, so

Uri Schneider: I'll just make a shout out for people like myself that don't come from military families or things like that. It's people like you, Mike, that give new meaning to these legal holidays of veterans day and Memorial day.

Uri Schneider: And like, I think all of us need to tune into that and recognize the service of others and also the sacrifices. Those were lives that will, in some times and families that are forever changed by the service. And we have to appreciate that so I can understand why that would be intense. But for us, it's helpful to, to hear these stories, to have more appreciation.

Uri Schneider: So you pivoted out of that. Let's get into here. You are on the other side of what was your experience, right. You had been on the receiving end of therapy. Now you're on the side of being a therapist. So what does that mean to you? What does that, do you ever pinch yourself and like look in the mirror and be like, Oh,

Mike Molino: what just about everyone?

Mike Molino: Yeah, I do. Um, you know, I try to always be present. I try to be that calm voice. Um, you know, on the other side of whether it was when I was in office or whether it's here virtually now, cause that's all I do now is, uh, I do speech, uh, virtually. Um, sometimes I, I get some interesting questions from parents about speech and about what, uh, what they think.

Mike Molino: Uh, I always, I'm always honest, um, especially with my fluency ones. Um, and I've had some pretty hard discussions with, with parents. Um, And just, uh, sitting on the other side of the desk or, you know, virtually, but especially the other side of the desk, when I was in person, you often think, wow, I'm doing this way differently than I remember.

Mike Molino: And it's because of a reason I did not like the way I was receiving speech. So I changed the delivery for only make it better for someone else. And, um, don't have focused on the fix. Let me fix that. We could fix the articulation. We could give you ways to fix a list. We could do this. We could give you memory tips.

Mike Molino: We could do all these wonderful things, right? We could say you got a swallowing problem. Let me give you some techniques. That'll make it easier. Right? All of these things for fluency, it's a different animal. It's a difference in cube and you have to move that, switch it to what's going to benefit the individual.

Mike Molino: What's, you're still serving what the parent is there for, but you got to educate the parents and, um, and you have to, you have to connect a, usually an office when I do interviews or whether it's now virtually. Um, I. They probably would walk out, not even knowing, Hey, he stutters too until maybe the second or third session.

Mike Molino: And then if not, then I'll open up and say, I want to share something with you. And then they're kind of like, Whoa, what, uh, um, yeah, it's

Uri Schneider: say I have this thought, let's say I was the parent, or let's say I was kid, or let's say I was this up and coming speech therapist, and let's say, I got you. I shouldn't fix it.

Uri Schneider: Right. So that's like the, uh, the negative or the warning of like, don't do that. So I believe, you know, just like with a baby taken away the pacifier, you gotta swap the pacifier for like a safety blanket, you know? So I often feel that when we take something away, we gotta replace it. So what, what would be your guiding principle or your offer to an up and coming speech therapist or to a parent?

Uri Schneider: So, okay. I got that. Don't fix with all the desire I have to fix. My kid, just like what we talked about before, it's a natural desire to spare somebody at difficult ordeal at the same time. If I'm not fixing it, what can I do? What should I be focused on? What can I, you know, proactively positively focus on offering as a parent or as a therapist or in your practice?

Uri Schneider: What are you

Mike Molino: looking for?

Mike Molino: We need to listen. We need to listen. Yo, you go through school, you ended up with a master's degree and the thing is fixed. Fix, fix, fix, fix, you know that dah, dah, dah, I'm listening, you know, and, and talking and communicating. That's what it's all about. Right? I don't care if you have a so severe, it takes you five hours to get out one word I'm going to listen the next time.

Mike Molino: Maybe it's only four hours. Yeah, they still struggle the next time. Maybe it's three the next time, maybe it's only 15 minutes, whatever that is, you got to connect. You have to communicate. That's what it's all about. And we allow it. Yes, we'll we'll. We will show you in techniques that make it easier. But when they're super young, they don't have that mental could pass city to think about, Oh, I need to do this.

Mike Molino: I need to think about this. I need to get a full breast support. I need to do certain things because they just don't know. They're they're young when they get a little bit older and they could think about these things and they could engage and they could do it and they could do that in technique. It's really difficult.

Mike Molino: It's as something you have to do all the time, it's exhausting. It's exhausting thinking about the words and the breast support and the way the easy, all of these things. It's so exhausting. I'm surprised more people don't, they're like, you know, I'm out of it, but

Uri Schneider: we you're surprised that more people don't say I can't, I'm just not opting into that because it is so exhausting.

Uri Schneider: It's such a tax. It's such a, it's like moving from New York to Florida. You just don't want to pay the tax anymore. It's

Mike Molino: a very draining, it's a Buhr. Just if I try to monitor and to engage all the fluency skills I can teach as I'm doing right now, I've been doing it for a few minutes, at least for five, probably.

Mike Molino: Um, it's exhausting. I will be entired later because of it. Uh, because

Uri Schneider: Mike, let me ask you a challenging question. If it's exhausting and it can be a choice that's legitimate for you. Why did, why did you choose to turn it on the past few minutes?

Uri Schneider: It's still

Mike Molino: the desire to be fluent,

Uri Schneider: which is what over the desire to be. Fluent is greater than.

Mike Molino: I don't know. I don't,

Uri Schneider: I mean, let's be, let's get real. You're you're a guy. That's got tattoos on your chest and on your back now you and me, if we were having this conversation, we'd have no problem doing the energy koozie with a bathing suit on.

Mike Molino: Kind of deep, are you wearing like a small bathing suit or like Mike,

Uri Schneider: Mike, the imagery is getting a little bit beyond that. I don't want to go there. What, I mean, what I mean to say, but I mean to say is we dress up in all sorts of clothing because it's more comfortable to be covered and it's more comfortable to dress the way people expect you to dress.

Uri Schneider: But as we talked about on zoom, you don't know what shorts I'm wearing or pajama pants who knows. Right. Exactly. In reality, you and I like to be pretty informal and pretty comfortable. So it it's just a curiosity for me at this stage,

Mike Molino: just as the reason right here. Yeah. This is the reason there's going to be people that are probably going to watch this or that are watching it right now.

Mike Molino: They're live streaming w uh, whatever they go away or whatever that is and techniques work bottom line. I

Uri Schneider: want to make sure that spreads across. Yeah.

Mike Molino: That I gave a demonstration. They do work if you utilize them and you do these certain things, they work, they are exhausting. There's no doubt. There are people that use them extremely well.

Mike Molino: I wanted to show on video, if someone's kind of watching, they get the full spectrum. Yes. I use them too. Most of the time. I don't the majority of the time, I

Uri Schneider: that's the full picture. I just wanted to highlight that you wanted to emphasize it can be useful and you can smooth things out. If you choose to it comes at a cost, it comes at a price.

Uri Schneider: And for you, for you at this stage of the game, you're an SLP, you're a worldwide advocate. You're a leader. You're a strong person. You choose to use it sometimes, but at your core, you'll still have interruptions in your flow. And at times you'll choose to just talk freestyle and not employ technique that I think is a, is an eyeopening thing.

Uri Schneider: I'd like to leave everybody to sit on. And when, and I'll leave you Mike, I'll say one more thing. And then I'm going to let you take us home with one last piece of wisdom, if you wish, but I'm just going to say this, and then you get the mic for the take home. I think that with kids, what I would offer therapists, and it's, it's really coming off of what you were saying.

Uri Schneider: Just framing it the way I might say it. I think the active thing we're trying to do is let people grow into themselves and let people become who they really are. And to do that, what Mike said was we need to listen, uh, and to tell people, look, if it takes a little bit more time, I'm going to give you more time.

Uri Schneider: I got a I'm here. I'm not interested in the clock. I'm interested in you. And when we do that, I go back to ninth grade biology. I remember the amoeba, the amoeba has this semi-permeable skin or whatever that thing was called. I forgot between the mitochondria in the nucleus and then all these other plasma pieces, but the high pressure, low pressure thing, right?

Uri Schneider: Things naturally flow from low pressure from high pressure to low pressure. Right. So when we listen as a parent or as a therapist, what we're doing is actually not passive. It's not the absence of something that's active. Listening is creating a low pressure space for what someone's holding inside, which is becoming pretty high pressure to just be sucked out of them.

Uri Schneider: You're creating space for them to come out. And usually, yeah, the world is coming at them so hot and here heavy. So pressured it naturally doesn't allow them to kind of just flow out. So I think what we need to do as therapists, as parents and as educators, and I hope this resonates with you. I think it does is to create that space again, not for some like cliche space term, but create space for people to take a turn, to take a chance to say what they got to say to be who they got to be, because the world doesn't see that enough, especially for people who just need an extra second.

Uri Schneider: And stutter and others just needed a little extra chance, a little extra space

Mike Molino: for him. If I may real quick, there was, I was seeing a, uh, six, a five and a half year old. When I was in a private practice, his parents were encouraged to come do speech three days a week. And I took over eventually for this kid.

Mike Molino: And, um, the mother had huge concerns about the amount of time that was suggested. And I sat there with her and we've had numerous conversations on the phone and in person and told her, um, I agree. I agree with you. I agree that too much. Once a week is enough. Um, and then eventually once every other week at this age, it's so hard.

Mike Molino: And the biggest thing is we always want to encourage them, you know, to make speaking fun. It doesn't matter the way you deliver it, make it fun. I don't ever want anyone to lose their voice. And I don't mean they're going to lose their voice because they're screaming and yelling one day. And the next day it's really sore.

Mike Molino: I mean, not use your voice by not using it. You have lost it. And there are so many people that go that way and we have to in courage them to speak and the fear and the anxiety that this young man was having, you know, a five and a half years old, he's wanted to play in the dirt. He just wanted to play. It didn't matter.

Mike Molino: He's not at that point. And I told the mother a story. I said, these are going to be the stages. He's going to go through more than likely. At a certain point, he will be back. He will do therapy, but at five and a half, he wasn't interested. So there was no buy-in. I said, when he gets into school, second grade, third grade, it's going to start to, he's going to start to, uh, look at everything around him and figure out that he's the only one that speaks this way.

Mike Molino: And, um, and I told her a little bit of a story that I had at that same age. And I said, I just want you to be prepared. There's going to be shame. There's going to be guilt. There's going to be this. He is going to regress. He's going to, because that's what typically happens. It doesn't always happen. Of course, there are some that are really resilient and they do well, especially when they're in a support group.

Mike Molino: There's so many great ones for kids, but when you're alone and there's no one else like you more than likely, they're going to fall back a little bit and they won't use their voice. And that's what we don't, we don't ever want that. So by pulling out his speech and come back in a few months, give me a phone call, dah, dah, dah.

Mike Molino: That's enough. Uh, for right now, and as a therapist, those are the skillsets that we all need to figure out to do the right thing. Right. First and foremost, do no harm. Right? That's that's what it is. And if you think about the word, Oh no, it's just a word, but do the right thing by, by me, engaging with a parent that way and talking with them.

Mike Molino: It makes life so much easier for everyone on the other side of the desk. Right. And we have phone calls still to this day, once in a while, like once every few months or once every six months, Hey, or, you know, you know, uh, things are going well, that's all I could ever think, right. If I could reach one person, if I could reach the second person even better, if I can reach five people, that's wonderful.

Mike Molino: Right. We have to do it in a way, way that is, um, that we do no harm. And by forcing people, forcing students in kids, whatever it is, uh, you know, to do it a certain way. And if you cannot engage in their facial expression and no, there's no, buy-in, you have other problems. You need to look in the mirror and figure yourself out first.

Mike Molino: Um, but that's the way I do it. Anyway. I always try to figure out all the pieces. Before, you know, anything else. So I

Uri Schneider: dunno, saving the best for last. If you're a parent or an SLP, I suggest you just relisten to the last four minutes of wisdom. Bombs dropped by the one and only Mike Molino. And here's something interesting.

Uri Schneider: Mike, I'm just going to reflect for you. I don't know if you realize it, but it hit me like a ton of bricks while you were talking. They don't teach what you just said in grad school. And they can't there ain't no textbook. No course that could teach it. It mirrors the lessons. The tough lessons that you lived.

Uri Schneider: You talked about being that kid who was burnt out in therapy and had the courage to tell your mom no mess. And your mom had the wisdom to listen to you and end it. And give you a break and then the idea of readiness, and there were different things you were ready for at different times. At some points you just wanted to hide on, you know, let the ground swallow you up would be better than having to stand in that place of discomfort.

Uri Schneider: At a later point, you were ready to hold a phone number for 11 years. If I paid attention, right then you were ready to go, but not step in the room. That was another step. And then you stepped into that room and now you, you live and breathe and swim and have so much joy and blessing in that room of friends and, you know, lifelong connections of feeling like these are my peeps.

Uri Schneider: And then you step into the field and you just bring all that wisdom with the professional credentials. You're a superpower, you're a superhero. And I really mean that. So I'm so grateful. And I think if more people listen to conversations, like the one you just shared. Those are some of the most valuable lessons on top of a good professional training, rigorous attention to the research and all the latest research coming out from our wonderful colleagues and friends, but ultimately the stories of lived experiences and the wisdom of again, the school of life, which is where you, your bio is just so rich and that, but listening to your story, Mike was very enriching for me.

Uri Schneider: And I know it's going to give a lot to a lot of people. So thank you for

Mike Molino: this. There's one more thing I'm going to give you here. Totally, man. So, you know, I've had that phone number, you know, on a little note, you know, for all these years. Um, eventually when I joined the group up in Seattle, I took it over, became the interpreter leader for about a year and a half in two years, I guess, you know, in all honesty.

Mike Molino: And then, um, And then I left, I was going to San Diego, um, you know, on the way from Washington, I stayed at my mom's house for like a week or so just, Hey, what's going on? Dah, dah, dah. Um, I look up to see if the San Jose group's having a meeting and they are they're happening immediately next week. So I show up and, uh, you know, and it's not that guy's house, you know, what's at Mel's house all these years.

Mike Molino: He's still the chapter leader. Right. And, uh, you know, I explained some of the story. Uh, do you know what Mel said to me better late than never. If you think about it, right. Very powerful. Better, late than never.

Uri Schneider: They say in the other rooms, in the rooms of recovery, they say there's no losers. Just slow winners.

Uri Schneider: Yeah.

Mike Molino: So that became, that probably became. The driving force into where I was going to go in life. And once I finished with the Navy, um, I knew I wanted to do speech, but I wasn't quite sure. I guess me only submitting one application and I got in that was assigned right there. I was like, okay. So I guess I'm going to do this now.

Mike Molino: You know, and I

Uri Schneider: can't imagine it any other way, Mike, just imagine that kid and that mom that you helped, or the other story you told me about the IEP meeting, where you came in with such wisdom that other people somehow were missing, you wouldn't have had that if not for your, you know, the circuitous route, the winding road that you took, but what a scenic view, man.

Uri Schneider: So I want to thank you. We'll wrap here. Not because there isn't another 10 hours of wisdom to unpack, but people need to get on with their day, perhaps. So maybe we'll go around to, it would be an honor to have you come back, but thank you for taking the time. If you're liking this, if you're liking this, share it.

Uri Schneider: If you're liking this, uh, send it to somebody that you think would appreciate it posted on your own feed or in communities of people who are training speech therapists or people who stutter. And you can always check out more on the podcast, transcending stuttering with reach Snyder. If you want to get hooked in with this whole transcending stuttering project, you can go to Schneider speech.com/tsa, and there's a way to sign up there for some free updates and just lots of goods, just for people to gain more insight and access to these kinds of conversations, which are always public and free.

Uri Schneider: And of course they're opportunities to go deeper, but just thank people like Mike for adding such wisdom and such value. So thank you so much.

Mike Molino: Uh, thank you very much. I enjoyed it. Uh, it's a pleasure and it always will be, if you, at some point here, if you want to, uh, give me a ring, we'll do it again.

Uri Schneider: Consider yourself rung up. All right. Well, thanks.