#35 Speech Dudes with Chris Wenger
“We don’t want to get to a point where they’re not feeling talking is authentic or genuine.”
What happened next... was wild...
Chris reached out to ask me about the emotional side of stuttering therapy.
And let's just say, I was star-struck. Chris has an incredibly CREATIVE edutaining Instagram handle @speechdude - how many people do you know as social media stars (26k followers) with such huge heart and soul, and personal care to do good and make impact in real lives, working on the front line as school-based SLP!!!
It was a fortuitous moment to just, jump on a call, and it took-off quickly from there.
What follows is the amazing bro-mance connection, much more... ENJOY!
Listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts or your favorite podcast platform. You can also watch the interview on YouTube.
RESOURCE LIST
MORE QUOTES
“You can live your life targeting your dreams or your live your life in fear.” -Chris Wenger
“ We don't don't treat voices. We treat people.” - Uri Schneider
TRANSCRIPTION:
Uri Schneider: So we're on, yeah, so we were just, we were just connecting about the idea of like, uh, the power of dealing with emotions and avoidance reduction when we're dealing with, with stuttering and the, the lack of training as speech therapists that we lack that.
But those of us working with kids, especially the older ones, we see how nec necessary that is. And then we were just kind of figuring out our context here, and I suggested the movie Transcending Stuttering and you.
Chris Wenger: Right. Dr. Phil . Dr. Phil, the og. The og, Dr. Phil. He's a goat. He, he is man, the, the goat. As a young s l p, years ago, when I got into the, and when I got into doing this, that was life changing for me because it's just as the title implies, Where you see the journey of these young people who live in isolation, who separate themselves from the world, who literally, their emotions come out.
I remember it so clearly. There was this individual who was interviewed and she just started crying because of the frustrations and because of the isolation and because of the fear of getting out there of what would happen. And then you see as they get older that what was the most important. Going out, living your dreams and not living in your fears.
Right? We got two ways of living
Uri Schneider: life. That girl, that girl in the film, the post story is she got married to the first guy she dated and he, and, and when she came back from the date, it was an arranged kind of date and they, and she said, uh, he's not gonna like me. I stuttered. And it turns out the matchmaker said no.
You thought it was kind of cute. Now she's a mom and a teacher and a mentor for other young people who. That is
Chris Wenger: fantastic. I love hearing stories of where someone did have the struggles and overcame them and is out there sharing, Hey, we got this. We all got
Uri Schneider: this, and we can pay back. We can give back. Yeah,
Chris Wenger: we can give back.
We can give back. You know, that's really why I wanted to reach, that's why, why I wanted to connect to you with you as well, ma'am, because I, I truly am there of saying, hey, We gotta, we gotta get more supporter. We gotta, we've gotta really hit that part of it, right? As an s l p. That's really where I feel like these webinars and these trainings have been as just targeting the fluency shaping stuff and the stuttering modification.
But the, the iceberg, the, the big part underneath it as, um, we had mentioned with that easy stuttering stuff is totally where we really need to go with it. But yeah, back to that, back to the film, man. I am, I'm so, that
Uri Schneider: is so amazing. What did it mean to you, so you remember that image, but what did it, what did it, what did you take away with you after?
Chris Wenger: So much. And so I will share with you that that particular video was a constant.
Uri Schneider: We're talking about transcending stuttering, the inside story, which is the first, I don't know if you know, there's a sequel going with the Flow, the Guide to Transcending Stuttering. They're all available. This is not promotional, but if you wanna see 'em free on Vimeo, and you can go to our website, schneider speech.com/movies and you'll see the movies.
Chris Wenger: That becomes part of the therapy process too, you know, using those videos and working with the students
Uri Schneider: is, I use your Instagram for my therapy. You could use those videos for yours. I love it.
Chris Wenger: There we go, man. Back and forth. Two-way street. Here we, we got this take. Hang it forward. Back off each other. I'm cool with that.
Uri Schneider: So what? Yeah, so what did it do for you? What did it mean to you and how did that take with you? On many
Chris Wenger: levels, it really helped me work with my. To really uncover their emotions, to really give them a different perspective. And that was the, the biggest therapy in itself. For me personally. It has made me through my journey as an S l P realize what really needs to be targeted with the particular demographics that I work with, which are adolescents, right?
And so, yeah, very easy.
Uri Schneider: Very easy. Popul.
Chris Wenger: I
Uri Schneider: know it's great opportunity. You got real people to talk to, but it's a challenging time in life in general. You're finding yourself, you're uncomfortable sometimes finding comfort in your own skin, and then on top of that you have some kind of communication challenge, like that was the last thing you needed on top of acne and puberty
Chris Wenger: at one additional thing of stress.
Right? That's always the thing that I will constantly remind them is, Hey, you can live your. In your dream with targeting your dreams or your live your life in fear, what's the number one fear in everybody? It's not dying. This is across the globe. It's standing up and speaking in public. It's, you
Uri Schneider: know, the Seinfeld, you know the Seinfeld line on that one?
What is that? He says, look, if the number one fear is public speaking more than getting punched in the face, more than losing a million dollars more than even dying, that means like at a eulogy, you'd rather be in the casket and given the. Given, given the eulogy at a funeral, you'd rather be in the casket than given the eulogy.
Chris Wenger: I'd rather be dead .
Uri Schneider: Yeah. Given that eulogy. That's right.
Chris Wenger: Absolutely
Uri Schneider: powerful. So that's, that's amazing. By the way, we're talking with speech, dude, my absolute favorite icon on, uh, Instagram and I, I don't do much or follow anybody, but when I wanna pick me up, that's both classy entertaining and substantial and informative and something that just puts me on.
That's, that's where I go. Speech dude. The guy is, I love it. Absolutely legendary and consistently delivers. And the amazing thing is he has a day job. He's not some guy, you know, looking at, look at my lifestyle. He literally is changing lives all day and then finds moments to reflect and create humor. and entertainment.
And I'm sure he gets as much out of it as the rest of us do, but that's why it's so awesome. And so if you're not following him, go, go. Now. We were talking tomorrow. Tomorrow I'll be talking to Vivian Siskin. That's number one. If you miss it, uh, you can catch it on the playback. So that's a conversa. Vivian Siskin is a, is is the goat Go test.
If my dad's the goat, she's Mrs. Goat. My mom is well, but, but Vivian Siskin is in her own right? Absolutely. The goat. She is responsible for the avoidance reduction therapy for stuttering. So we'll be talking about that. If you wanna catch the recording afterwards, all of those conversations, like tens of them on Schneider speech.com/our blog.
Did you know Chris, we're giving away AirPods. I'm just gonna make the plug free. AirPods. Who does that? Free
Chris Wenger: AirPods. Who does? How do you get, how so what, what's the uh, process?
Uri Schneider: Here's the catch, here's the catch. It's a raffle. It's very simple. Okay? You go to the same blog page, Schneider speech.com/blog/contest.
All you have to do is help us find a highlight, a takeaway, an insight from some of these conversations that will help us make an episode at the end of the year that we'll bring some smiles and some joy to people at the end of the year. You help us find one takeaway, one highlight that resonated for you.
We're gonna enter you into a rapid win free repair, AirPods. That's simple.
Chris Wenger: I love that. Fantastic. And,
Uri Schneider: and just for you, you asked as a, as a, as a, as an adolescent school-based s l p, a real hero on the frontline. I mean, frontline medical personnel deserve the first line of respect. And military and, and blue all deserve tremendous respect, but not enough respect to the speech therapist out there, my brothers and sisters.
So I love it for you, for you, what you were talking about, how do we help in. in a way that goes beyond the lips, right? That's my dad's big thing. We don't treat lips right? We don't don't treat voices. We treat people and ultimately they're gonna leave our room, either between meetings or hopefully when we finish the semester and they age out or we discharge them, which is a whole nother word we should unpack, but, uh, we need to empower them with the skills, the courage to push their right to push their limits and their comfort zone.
So the transcending stuttering film, when you. . I had been thinking about it for a long time. What thought to me was, how do I create something therapists could run with? So we just launched, and this is also free, Chris, this week, the Transcending Stuttering Academy. We got an online video course specifically for teens and adults to guide and drive their own process forward.
It's ultimately gonna be super afford. It is incredibly affordable, but today it's not even about affordable. It's free. So if you go to the website, schneiders beach.com, button on top, online course, click. Enter the code give and you get it for free. SLPs in 2021, we're gonna do a training around it, but it covers four things.
Chris, and I'll finish with this. Four things. There's four things you need to know. It's a framework for therapists and frameworks for people, for themselves, and maybe even for parents. Self knowledge. You gotta know what's up about communication. What's up about yourself? What are your strengths? What are your gifts, and what are your challenges and what are they really all about and what are they not?
You don't stutter cuz you're nervous. You don't stutter cuz you're unintelligent. You don't stutter cuz you're not good. , you don't stutter cuz you're not lovable, you stutter cuz you have a physical hiccup that kind of like shows up in an unpredictable way. It's a neurophysiological thing, right? The second thing is the traditional stuff, maybe the self adjustment where people can learn ways that they often don't pick up.
How can I find out what makes me stutter more and what makes me stutter a bit less? What makes it easier to physically get the words out? That's where most therapists spend most of the time. The third is self-acceptance. So we have videos and exercises and an ebook that's like 60 plus pages, and it's growing as we co-create it with professionals and creatives like you and people who stutter around the world.
So self-acceptance, you can do a lot there and it's super important. And then the fourth thing, Chris, and I'm sure you do this, self-advocacy, how do you help people speak up for themselves, whether it's at a. Social gathering a family Thanksgiving dinner or Christmas gathering, or with their teacher to let 'em know what's up in a non apologetic way.
A very matter of fact, way to let 'em know, Hey, I stutter. You might see I have a little hesitation when I answer. If you give me 30 seconds of response time, I'd appreciate it. You're gonna get great answers from me, non apologetic, telling people what they need to know. If you can do those four things and flex in those different ways, you're gonna be living with courage, not with fear.
That's my pitch. .
Chris Wenger: I love it. That's exactly the angle that I, that's my school of thought. Sounds
Uri Schneider: like we're on the same, so I need help with creative videos. That's where I'm gonna lean on you, and if any way we can offer you things for you and for your team, it would be an honor and
Chris Wenger: privilege. Let's, yeah, let's brainstorm together.
We'll come up with some creative stuff. You know, when I create my content on the, on Instagram and TikTok and things like that, it's usually just in my day-to-day interactions with people and it just, Goes, you know what? That's something that just needs to be out there. This is relatable, but everyone goes through these same types of things, and it just, same with the, the world of stuttering as well.
Things pop up where I, we can definitely collaborate on some stuff and, and get it out there.
Uri Schneider: That'd be amazing. So just a big cloud back speech. Dude, I literally today watched a video where you were giving gratitude to your. Over the weekend about how much she means to you and Awesome. It was really inspiring and uh, for a long time I've been a big fan, so it's like, uh, a little bit of a, a man crush.
Uh, I'm just blown away to be on the call with you and to be able to give and take is awesome. So, Bless. You
Chris Wenger: know, the cool thing about her too is that she's in our world. So when we have conversations, that's, um, she's an SLP as well, but she works with more of the younger population and so she could give me insight with the ways that they address things over at her private practice, you know, and then we just kind of have a conversation and it works out, um, well, to get our brains thinking.
Um, just recently, just a couple days ago, I had to ask her if she had to do a project. In undergrad or grad school, in her fluency disorders class on when the professor, um, has you go out and pseudo stutter, you know, really purposely stutter in multiple settings and write down, um, a couple pages of our experience with that or present it to the class.
We all did. And I asked her, yeah, I asked her, I said, I would love to know the percentage of people who actually. Because in the world of SLPs, they experienced what a, a person who stutters goes through and they probably made up going out. And doesn't that let you know firsthand if we have fear on doing the assignment times that by 10 in a real situation?
I would just love to know if there was data on that of collecting by saying, did you really go out there and and do the assignment or did you just say, Hey, I experienced a hard time ordering a sandwich at Subway and you know what I mean?
Uri Schneider: today. Today, I'm the stuttering. I'm one of many people that really care and invest in this space, helping people who stutter.
But I was that guy who almost didn't do the assignment, and my dad was the professor. You too, .
Chris Wenger: Exactly. That's where I was thinking. I was like, you know this, there was a time where I was like, I do not wanna go and do this assignment. I have to go out in three different occasions in, in, in settings, and then I have to reply on it.
I'm not doing it. My professor would never know. I'm just gonna make it up. It literally crossed my mind, but if it crossed my mind on someone who's very social. then I could imagine that in our world of, in our field of speech, how many people actually didn't do the assignment and that right there lets you know where we need to go with this
Uri Schneider: thing.
Right? My, the similar story, he was challenging a client, adult client to make more phone calls and adult client turned around to my desk and said, you try making a phone call, stuttering. And my dad stood there. He's a, he's not. Look, my dad's the. and I have the utmost respect and I don't wanna say anything against my dad, but he would say the same thing.
He would say, he's not exactly made of nails. Okay, he's got, he's got a lot of nerves and a soft kind. So he was like, for the first time I took pause and I stopped pushing the guy to make calls until I was ready to do it the next week. And the idea that in therapy in everything, but I think so many people are scared of stuttering therapy.
It's very simple. Just start like this. A person wants to enjoy. . If we can help them enjoy talking and make talking fun and connecting with people nice and fun, like it should be an inable right for everybody. Start there and then think of everything we do. Put yourself in the shoes of the other person.
Whatever age they are, frankly, whatever age, child, adult, teen, parent. Don't ask parents to do things or ask teens or adults do things that you're not ready to do. And if you just stop there, you'll make so many fewer mistakes. And if your goal is to make talking. and pleasant and connections are opening, then you're doing a great job.
Whether they're still stuttering or not, we can always polish on that and offer little ways to go this way or that way. But if we only do that, this is the kicker. We can make it worse. Cuz if we sell 'em a bag of tricks, then we're, we might actually tighten the whole system up because they've been trying to stuff it in and then they buy into these tricks and tips and if it just stays superficial, they're just tightening up on the inside and they're not having fun, they're not enjoying talking.
Chris Wenger: Nailed it a hundred percent. That's the last thing Y Yeah, you're exactly right. We don't want to get to a point where they're not feeling it's authentic or genuine and they're not feeling comfortable and it just goes the
Uri Schneider: opposite way. Exactly. And we think we're doing, we're following the, we're following the program, we're doing the sheets.
You know? Right. That's what we got. That's what we were fed. That's what we're doing. Don't do anything you were fed. You know, stay fresh, stay alive, use your head and use.
Chris Wenger: We just became best friends. , you're right, there we're on my, my, my line of thinking is just that
Uri Schneider: really, uh, I can't wait to see what video you're gonna think of doing right now.
I think you, you gotta do a video. You gotta make a video of, of going around doing some pseudo stuttering. I think that's your video for the week right there. I
Chris Wenger: could, you know what? That is a great idea. I absolutely can. When you're an s o p, if. , anything that I've learned on my end of things, it's you have to get out there and do the pseudo stuttering as much as possible because if you're comfortable doing it, then you'll be comfortable working with, with your kids that, and if you're not comfortable doing it, then you're not gonna be comfortable working with your kids and they're gonna know, trust me.
That's the one thing that other people could pick up on if you're comfortable,
Uri Schneider: especially, especially your own. But also, yeah, your clients. Yeah. They see when you're fake I, all of that. Absolutely. And I would just add, before we record it, you said something so powerful, people see you and they think you're fearless.
And they may see me and think, I don't know what they think. Clearly not fearless and I don't have as cool a tattoo or a hat as you. But what they could say is like, oh, these guys don't have fear. Oh, these guys don't have to push their limits. And uh, I think it's so important to just, you asked me where did I learn the.
Human side or or counseling side or emotional side of the stuttering therapy. And I would say two things. One is what you, you hit on the experience of being in an intensive with people who stutter and doing what they did specifically in public spaces in New York City. For me, that was the watershed moment where I think I earned my stripes.
It wasn't in a classroom and it wasn't at a C E U seminar. Those those are very important. Absolutely. But that was the moment. That was a watershed for me and the other. is the personal work of recognizing where I have fear, where I hold back, and how I work on myself authentically, just as a man, as a husband, as a dad.
Those things, I think, bring more value to my work than again, anything I've learned in the classroom. And if you're not doing those things, a, you're not bringing your best self, and B, your clients are losing out because you could bring so much more when you go there and you, you shared something too.
Chris Wenger: Right, right, right. Absolutely. Yeah. You know, I, I agree with you. Right on that same page. Yeah.
Uri Schneider: Amazing. Amazing. So we're gonna take this further. So great to share this time. Thanks, man. Yeah,
Chris Wenger: yeah. You got it man. I enjoyed this and um, it sounds like, yeah, it sounds like I got some work to do here on my, uh, uh, creativity for some videos,
Uri Schneider: Love it. Anytime. And you got me, you got me thinking a lot as well.