BIO

James Hayden is a New Orleans Saints fan, a Survivor superfan, HLA technologist, writer, and a person who stutters from the New Orleans area. James is the author of Dear World, I Stutter: A Series of Open Letters from a Person Who Stutters. His work has been published by The Mighty, The Stuttering Foundation, Stamma, Yahoo, and MSN. James has also appeared on several podcasts and was a speaker at TEDxOchsner 2019. He also serves as the chapter leader for the New Orleans chapter for the National Stuttering Association.

Listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts or your favorite podcast platform. You can also watch the interview on YouTube.

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS

0:00- 11:20- opening comments, career, stuttering pill and the evolving choice 

11:20-20:00 - the role of speech therapy and community 

20:00-40:00 - becoming a writer, author and public speaker 

40:00-1:04:25 - TEDx Talk, how I write and future bucket list hopes

RESOURCE LIST

• Dear World, I Stutter
  

• The Mighty Articles
  

• We Stutter
  

• The Stuttering Foundation Articles
  

• Stamma Articles
  

• Stuttered Blog by James Hayden
  

MORE QUOTES

“I like to think I'm a good person and that the fact that I stutter has helped shape that. And without this part of me, I don't know where I would be. I wouldn't have the experiences I had. I wouldn't be talking to you. I don't think I would be as empathetic as I am. I wouldn't be as good as a listener as I am.” - James Hayden

TRANSCRIPTION:

Uri Schneider: let's do this. Okay. Happy birthday. Happy birthday to James. And, um, my greatest professor and mentor, uh, Joel star, who passed away in the last year, not COVID related. Um, always loved to say he was someone who retired, but never left the office, continued to dedicate his life to the work that he loved and the people that he loved his colleagues and the people who he dedicated his whole career to, uh, young people with all sorts of learning differences.

Uri Schneider: And he always used to say, every day is a birthday. If you wake up, it's a gift. So we can all celebrate our birthday. But today our special guests, James, it is truly his birthday. And for those that know James he's one of the most recognized names and voices, his words resonate around the country and around the world.

Uri Schneider: Um, so I'll just give a little intro, but we're going to talk about. Growing up and adulting and, um, why he chose to do this on his birthday, but I'll read his bio and this is going to be a great episode. And I'm really looking forward to connecting with my man James from new Orleans. So James is from new Orleans.

Uri Schneider: He's a saints fan, which is a, an emotional thing because drew breeze just retired after a really awesome career. We're not gonna focus on that because that's a downer, but it's a birthday. So we're going to stay up. He's a survivor, super fan and HLA technologist, a writer, a person who stutters for the new Orleans area.

Uri Schneider: James is the author of your world. I stutter a series of open letters from a person who stutters the book is. Epic. And it's always at the top of the table and often sold out at the conferences, but you can find it on Amazon. So again, the book, dear world, I stutter, uh, the work's been published. His work has been published on the mighty.

Uri Schneider: Uh, he's also a blogger with the stuttering foundation with STEMA, with Yahoo and MSN. And if that wasn't enough, James also appeared on several podcasts. Um, and that's good preparation for this one, but this is not the biggest stage, the biggest stage. I think it's fair to say that he stood on was a TEDx conference 2019.

Uri Schneider: Uh, we'll talk about that. He also serves as the chapter leader for the new Orleans chapter for the national stuttering association. And I just want to read something that James wrote, which I thought was great and a fantastic intro from his TEDx talk. And then I'll let James tell us why he's here on his birthday.

Uri Schneider: But, um, James wrote about his TEDx talk. I stepped on the dot. And I chose this specifically because it relates to birthdays, right? Flexing on the past year and where we've been and where we are and where we're going. But most importantly, sometimes we don't feel we've changed a whole lot when we look at the last week, look at the last monthly last year.

Uri Schneider: But if we look back at ourselves five years ago, it's sometimes refreshing to realize we're not the same. We were five years ago and you can't watch a pot boil, but when we're feeling like, you know, where am I going? Am I getting traction? It helps to look back with a little bit of perspective. And then it helps us also to look ahead, not what's going to change tomorrow, but where do I want to be a year from now, five years from now?

Uri Schneider: Just a dream. Just get some space of opportunity and abundance. So I'm gonna read this and then James, please take us off. Um, I stepped on the.at a TEDx talk, took a deep breath and told myself this will come out the way it'll come out. And that's okay. Over the next four and a half minutes. I stuttered big time, but more importantly, I delivered my TEDx talk.

Uri Schneider: Gave my audience, my message. Once it was done, went backstage to celebrate what I just did with my fellow speakers in the backstage crew. During the celebration, I was overcome by a wave of emotion and I had to take a few minutes for myself. I kept thinking of 21 year old James James from five years ago would have let his stutter hold holding back from much, uh, from so much giving a Ted talk on his bucket, uh, much less giving a Ted talk.

Uri Schneider: So just the idea of giving a Ted talk, James from five years ago would have been mad and embarrassed that he stuttered and that openly to stuttered openly to a group of strangers. James from five years ago would not have believed, but 26 year old James accomplished what a great intro as we welcomed James to the transcending stuttering podcast.

Uri Schneider: Um, stepping on the stage on his birthday. Thank you for having me.

James Hayden: Thanks honor. So I think my birthday, uh, because aren't supposed to do what you love on your birthday and like talking about stuttering is one of the things that I love to do is ironic. Consider me from eight, nine years ago, uh, would w w w we never do this, did not want to talk about stuttering.

James Hayden: They want to, didn't want to acknowledge the fact that he was a person that stuttered. And now today, like 28, this is something that I love to do. And yes, for those that are watching, I know I look like I'm 17, but I promise you I'm 28.

Uri Schneider: It's funny how at certain points in your life, you wish to look older and you get carded too often.

Uri Schneider: And then at a certain point, you turn a corner and you're like, I wish I looked younger, so I won't reveal my age, but, um, James, you look great and you should always have that young spirit and spunk and awesomeness. Um, totally. So. Like, what do people not know about you? That intro really touched on different parts of your, um, you know, what TV series you love, what you have accomplished and what teams you root for, but what's something that you wish people to know that maybe it wasn't in the Bible.

Uri Schneider: Ooh, good

James Hayden: question. Um, so I'm the oldest of two, the oldest of two. Um, I have a

James Hayden: younger sister and I'm the only person in my family that's stutters. No fun fact. And in HLA technologists for those, I don't know is I basically see if a potential organ donor potential organ recipient are compatible and I've been doing that for three years on next week.

Uri Schneider: Wow. Wow. So organs like kidneys, things like that.

Uri Schneider: Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. That's incredible. Are you involved in the transport as well or, or just the match? The. Feasibility of the match,

James Hayden: just the testing portion of it.

Uri Schneider: Awesome. That's a fascinating thing.

James Hayden: Yeah. One of three labs in the state of Louisiana that does it, and there's only like 200 labs, roughly turns out 200 labs in the country that they do that type of testing.

Wow.

Uri Schneider: So you've picked your birthday to be on, but I can't help, but notice over your left shoulder, I'm seeing the way we talk poster from Mike Turner's film. And, um, and Mike Turner was my guest last week out in Oregon. I'm like clicking off my 50 States slowly but surely. So we got Louisiana, we got Oregon, um, Nebraska a few weeks ago, Dr.

Uri Schneider: Naomi. Um, so Mike's awesome. And you and I connected we'll get to your right shoulder in a minute, but your left shoulder, the way we talk is a film by Michael Turner. Unbelievable film documentary, and you and I connected in the chat on the zoom screening of that with the stuttering scholarship Alliance, hosted by none other than Nate mallet, petty.

Uri Schneider: And I was very moved by the exchange and I think everyone was, and they shared a short clip of that. Do you want to share what that movie meant to you? Yes. So I first

James Hayden: saw it in, uh, April of 2017. Um, I was living in Baton Rouge at the time and I saw that the movie was being screened. So I figured, well, let me, let me go see it.

James Hayden: I

James Hayden: heard a bunch of good things about the movie, so I wanted, went to go see it at time. I don't even going to, just starting support group meetings for about a year and a half. And it was like coming around to the idea of being part about myself and being okay with talking about it. And towards the end of the film, uh, One of the people in the documentary.

James Hayden: I forget the man's name. It's not Michael, it's one of his friends, but he says, uh, to wish away this part of myself would be like saying, I don't like who I am. I like who I am. And that struck a chord with me because a question I sometimes get, whenever I talk to people about stuttering is would you take a magic pill to give it over your stutter?

James Hayden: And my answer has changed over the past six, seven, eight years, um, from it would, my original answer was, I don't know. And that's, and that's it, you know, not a cop out to 80% of the time. I would not take it. To now, where if you offer me the pill 100 times, I'm saying no, you know, you know, 98 times out of a hundred, it's like, yes, I do have these, those, those rare days when I want nothing to do this.

James Hayden: And I would, would we call it, take that pill, but those days are few and far between. And I think for me having been okay with it, an accept and embrace this part of myself, I have learned so much about myself and about life. I met so many amazing people. I've had so many amazing because of the fact that I've made the decision this daily and at times hourly decision to embrace this part of myself.

James Hayden: And I think if I get rid of it, I wouldn't have those, all those life lessons and experiences, but also like saying I don't like. You know who I am, this, this is a part of myself that has made me and shit, me and transformed me. It's like the person I am today at 28. And without it, I wouldn't, I don't think I would be me and I, and I like who I am.

James Hayden: I like to think I'm a good person and that the fact that I stutter has helped shape that. And without this part of me, I don't know where I would be. I wouldn't have the experiences I had. I wouldn't be talking to you. I don't think I would be as empathetic as I am. I wouldn't be as good as a listener as I am.

James Hayden: If I didn't have a stutter, if I didn't stutter. And it's wild to imagine a world where I didn't, why, why wouldn't stutter full time, but as well as it is, I can imagine that. And I know that that's like, because for a short period of time in high school, I didn't curse myself personal stuttered. I only, I started like once or twice during my, my high school career from my.

James Hayden: 1318, but I thought slobbering w I was done with, and then my study returned when I was a senior in high school, 10 years ago. And it hasn't left since, and I've made, I've accepted the fact that this is a part of me and that's okay.

Uri Schneider: Totally. Well, I think, I think it was so interesting is number one, looking at how things are kind of fluid and evolve. So, you know, when it doesn't arrive at a destination, right. You know, we consistently are meandering on a journey and sometimes we lean a little bit to the left of the road, sometimes a bit to the right of the road.

Uri Schneider: It's not, it's not black or white, it's not binary. And I loved how you said the answer has changed over time. And even in this very moment talking about in this very moment, 98 times out of a hundred, my answer is X two times out of a hundred. It might be why. And that allows for the. The reality that most of our feelings are pretty mixed with.

Uri Schneider: Most of life is very little, it's like total. Right? I think that's very refreshing. I think the concept that it's just, there's an easy way that people could, could come to think it's all or nothing either way. And I, and I like the nuance that you're bringing to that. If you want to share anything about that.

Uri Schneider: Yeah.

James Hayden: It took me a while to get to that point. Like, as you said, it's an ongoing journey and my answer has changed because I've drawn a lot as a person over the past six, seven, eight years. My view on stuttering has grown a lot over, over that same timeframe and I've matured a lot and it's realizing that stuttering, isn't the worst thing on the planet.

James Hayden: It's not like this dragon and th th that needs to be slate, but rather it's just one of the things that make me uniquely me. And does stuttering suck? Yeah. 24 seven, three 65, but I choose to see that the beauty. Of stuttering, because if I didn't, if I saw the other negatives of it, then for me, I wouldn't be in a good place.

James Hayden: I wouldn't be doing, you know, what I'm doing. Like I would, I would let my stutter control me instead of me controlling.

Uri Schneider: So powerful. What were the influential pieces or people or experiences? So watching the film in 2017, sounds like that was a certain touchdown moment. What were some other people or experiences that really turned pages for you or were memorable impressionable?

James Hayden: So there's a few big ones that I think of, uh, first one was returned to speech therapy when I was a junior in college at the age of 20, which was not on my list of things to do during my college career. And it took some convincing from my family before I. I sent the email. And when I sent that email, I was a spring semester of college spring semester of my sophomore year.

James Hayden: And I sent them an email, hoping that they could say, there's nothing that we could do. Sorry. But I got the answer that I needed and not the answers that I wanted interest. You can begin speech therapy in the fall. So, uh, no, 20 years old, fall of 2013, uh, it starts with therapy, uh, had a swallow, a massive amount of pride in order to do that.

James Hayden: Because for my first two years of college, I had put on this mask, like being okay with the fact that I stuttered when in reality, the face behind the mask, wasn't okay with it and was afraid of like, what would happen if his friends found out that he was in speech therapy and that he wasn't okay with.

James Hayden: So, and all these negative things, no spoiler alert, my friends didn't care, then they don't care. Now I stutter, I went speech therapy. It's a non-issue as it should be, but I wasn't in that place then. So at 20, I was so convinced that studying this is like this terrible thing and I was embarrassed by it.

James Hayden: And if people found out about it, then the world would end. They found out I was in speech therapy. Like the world would end because like everyone knew I stuttered. I didn't really hide it, but I never talked about it. So I was going to speech therapy when I was 20. And like, yeah, I learned it in relearn a bunch of different techniques to reduce my stutter.

James Hayden: But more importantly, it was the first time that I talked about snuggling with someone. It was like, I was able to just talk to my speech therapist about my fears for the future, my concerns, my self doubt, um, and all of the negative things that we associate with stuttering, excuse me. And I, over the course of next two years, I developed this sense of acceptance within myself.

James Hayden: That. Okay. Maybe stuttering isn't the worst thing on a planet started become okay. With this notion that there's more, there's worse things in life than taking a few extra seconds to say your name. So that was like a big moment for me. Uh, my next moment it's it's two and one was in October of 2015. I went to my first okay.

James Hayden: Meeting. Um, it was the backwards chapter and I had heard about the NSA and speech therapy about two years prior. But at the time I wasn't ready to walk into a room of people who stuttered and say, Hey, my name is James. I stutter. Let's talk about it was not there yet. Uh, so October, 2015, I looked at the NSA and to see this whole acceptance thing was real because I was internally okay with it.

James Hayden: But externally I wasn't ready. I didn't know if I was ready to, to share that with others, uh, walk through those doors. And I found people that got it. I met for the first time in 22 years, I met people that got in that that knew what was going on. And that can say, yeah, I get it. This is how I deal with this.

James Hayden: And just having it sense of community was a big game changer. And it's been that way for five and a half years now. Of being with people that get it that know, and that can challenge me on my beliefs on stuttering and try to make me think it may make me think of things differently in regards to studying.

James Hayden: So being a part of that community has been a massive thing for me. And then also that same meeting, I met the chapter leader, uh, Jeff Colson, who is a professor at LSU and his sort of become like a mentor ish as configured to me over the past, you know, five and a half years. Cause he was the first person that I saw that he started, but he can, he still is like married with kids and has a good job.

James Hayden: He has like all those things that I want and he's, they stutters, he has all those things I want. And like, yes, I can do that. And at 22 that was like a big deal to me. And he's someone that I can go to and just like, okay, like this sucks. Or like I have this situation, I don't know how to best handle it.

James Hayden: What's your perspective? So I think that those would be my three big game-changers to get to where I'm at today.

Uri Schneider: It's amazing. You know, as I think about those three things, I think about there are moments that are like, uh, openings of doors, sliding doors. There are then communities that help us kind of carry through longterm because those moments are fleeting.

Uri Schneider: There are those inspirational moments, those moments of fireworks, but it's hard to capture them and carry them, you know, between 4th of July and 4th of July. And hopefully this 4th of July will be a much bigger celebration, hopefully, hopefully, but, um, but between the fireworks, how do we keep it alive?

Uri Schneider: How do we keep the light? How do we keep the sparks? And I think community is the, is the piece that's so important there. And then having those relationships with people who can be like peer to peer or peer to mentor, and sometimes it's with a family member, or sometimes it's with someone whose title. Is is assumed to be someone who would be a mentor.

Uri Schneider: And then sometimes you find mentors in the weirdest of places. They come from different walks of life. There are different stages of life, but it's so important. I think to have breakthrough moments and experiences that are outside your norm, that's where you're going to grow. And then having a community that continues to support that growth and that, and keep it going and having that consistent ability to tap into community, to keep it fresh and alive inside of you, because otherwise you just kind of fall back to the old familiar stuff and then finding that person that can be a mentor or a peer to kind of really bounce things off of and have that give and take and then reciprocate back with it.

Uri Schneider: It's it's brilliant. Yeah,

James Hayden: but those are my big three game changers.

Uri Schneider: Where did the book start? When did you decide you were writing a book where you over your right shoulder is an amazing set of things you could tell us about all of them, but I see one of them is your best-selling book. And maybe you could tell us about dear world.

Uri Schneider: I stutter to the Genesis of it. When you thought it was going to be a book, how it started and where it's taken you, like for sure.

James Hayden: So my, so writing a book was never on my bucket list of things to do. And it came out of what I used to call my quarter-life crisis. So I was living in Baton Rouge at the time was one step below my dream job at my dream company.

James Hayden: And I used the word dream in quotes. Cause that was my dream when I was 22, 23 and I was miserable there after like a year and a half. I knew I needed something else, but I didn't know what that something else was. Uh, So this was February of 2017. Um, I was told I would not be moving up and like, no, like, yeah, that was basically it.

James Hayden: And I was like, okay, cool. Now what? Cause this is, this was my degree. This is what I've been wanting to do since, since I was in high school and I was told it's not going to happen for you. So that was crushing. So February, 2017, I'm trying to figure, okay, what's my next step? Wait, where do I go from here?

James Hayden: Because what I went through for so long, I can't do now what? Uh, so around this time I, I started to guest lecture at LSU for, for, for Dr. Colson's class. And I had also done an NSA open house, you know, panel discussion

James Hayden: the community. And through those two experiences, I realized. That I like to talk about stuttering, which is weird because for so long studying, what's the elephant in the room that everyone chose to ignore myself included. But now I wanted to acknowledge the elephant and talk about the elephant and describe the elephant and just like, like sh you know, show the elephant off to everyone.

James Hayden: Um, so those two things realized I liked to talk about stuttering and I figured, let me just get my story out there and see what happens. Maybe this, maybe this could lead somewhere. Um, maybe it doesn't, but at least I could say I tried as opposed to being 50 years old and saying, well, what if. So,

Uri Schneider: what did you think when you, when you did all that, like leaning into that, you say it in hindsight as if no big deal.

Uri Schneider: Um, but you know, for anyone leaning into that at the time you were stepping into the unknown, you were stepping into the abyss, you were stepping exactly into the thing that for so long was something you ran away from or avoided. Um, I'm wondering in hindsight, it worked out, it worked out marvelously well, but for any home run, you know, I often like to business leaders, all well books on personal growth, talk about this, to hit a home run or a grand slam.

Uri Schneider: You got to strike out a couple of times, you got to swing hard and you're going to strike out more often than you're going to connect. Um, what was the downside or what would have been the greatest risk looking back? Like maybe you'd even think about it then, but what was the potential risk or downside of, of what you did?

Uri Schneider: And obviously we see some of the upsides, but you could kind of shed light on even more of some of the. Latent benefits that came out of that and then how we get to the book.

James Hayden: Right. So when I first started to write, I, I wrote my, my journal story got picked up by the mighty and I figured, okay, let's, let's just see what happens.

James Hayden: Got some good feedback realized. I like to talk about stuttering and that a lot of times I wanted to talk about could be in a form of an open letter. So, uh, spring and summer of 2017, I was writing a lot just to get my story out there, get my name out there and see what would happen was getting good feedback.

James Hayden: And during all that time, this idea of a book, and maybe I could make this a book at some point, like five, 10 years down the line. Wasn't something I really considered, but I still kept. You know, writing just to get my name out there just to, to, to, to have myself known within, within, within the, the writing world and the stuttering world and just see where this would take me.

James Hayden: But I also have a bunch of stuff that I wanted to, to not publish just in case I ever did write this book. Uh, that was a lot of like summer of 17 was just, just no writing. And, uh, October of 2017, I loved my job with no real backup plan. Uh, moved back in with my parents at 24, with, with, with, with, with no real job.

James Hayden: Like, didn't have a job. They know what I was doing with my life, but my parents were great. And then they, they, they moved back in and I decided, why not? I figured worst case scenario is that I write this book. No one buys it, but I could, but I could say I did it. And it's a fun fact about myself that I could bring up best case scenario.

James Hayden: I can make a career off of this, go on the Kelly Clarkson show and whatever. So I think, okay, why not? So I spent the next, like six weeks writing a teen and formatting, Ryan editing, formatting, writing, editing formatting, and I self published, uh, December 4th of 2017. Um, but yeah, there are, there are some downsides.

James Hayden: There are times when I had to really think like, okay, am I, is this how, how I truly felt, or am I just at 24 projected onto my younger self or projected onto others? And then there were a couple of letters in there that were hard to write because it was two people that I know personally, I didn't use their names, but.

James Hayden: And like, how would that impact my friendship or my relationship with that person? So those were some things I had to weigh out and, and were, was publishing those letters worth it. And I ultimately decided that it was because if my book is going to be as honest and as real and as vulnerable as I claimed it was going to be those letters, no, no.

James Hayden: Had to be in there and they understand somewhat some, I still talk to some I don't, but that's life, there's other stuff, other stuff going on. It wasn't just a letter, like other things that have happened in. And like we just dropped over the over years. Cause that's what happens sometimes, but that's the short of that's basically it.

James Hayden: So it's a 25 open letters to people that have been, or will be on my journey with stuttering. Um, I write to my younger self, my parents, uh, my speech therapist, the future speech therapist to my family, to my friends, to my sister, to the waiter who laughed at my stutter to the person said, I should never apologize for the fact that I stutter.

James Hayden: To the first Gulf sea pass my stutter to the persons that I should never apologize because I stutter. It's the person that said they felt sorry for me, because I stutter to my future wife, future self and future kids, and a couple other ones.

Uri Schneider: It's, it's a very powerful thing and a very powerful exercise.

Uri Schneider: I encourage everybody to check out the book. It's the openness, the honesty, the integrity, the courage is, uh, is what's so attractive. You know? Um, there's so many stories specifically in the dating, in the dating scene, uh, where people have all kinds of hesitation because of feeling not, they don't measure up feeling like they're not attractive enough, or this thing about them will be acceptable to others.

Uri Schneider: And often it's more of, can I accept myself if I can't accept it myself, it makes sense that I'm not going to feel that others can accept it. So it starts with, and we've been talking about this with this framework. We've been running with this four-part framework with transcending stuttering. Your self knowledge, knowing what stuttering in the communication's about, there's the self adjustment?

Uri Schneider: What can I do to make things easier? What can I discover? Makes things harder. Oh, wow. It's not all like a victim to the weather. There are things I can do that actually make a difference. That's helpful. Whether I choose to do them or not, then there's self acceptance, which is self-love self-compassion how do I tolerate myself?

Uri Schneider: How do I love myself? How do I celebrate myself on my birthday and every day? Right? And then self-advocacy like, how do I let the world know? This is what's up is what it is. It's what it's not. And here's how I want you to. To relate to me and knowing what's up is on the table. You know, let's, let's go forward and do great things together.

Uri Schneider: But what I love about it is with writing letters and it's one of the exercises that we lean on a lot. I love that James has given us an example, a template, something people can see as an example of all these different letters to one's younger self, which is such a therapeutic thing, but also the letters to heal, or to say the words that were unspoken when someone said something that was crushing, when someone said something nasty and you might never get to see them, you might never get to settle the score, but you can kind of settle the scar, the feeling, the bruise, you know, I just came right now, man.

Uri Schneider: I'm with a master. We're good. You can't sell the score, but you can heal the scar. So it's all yours anytime. So listen, it happens. Um, Steph Steph is here given major props to the must read of the book, but I just want to say for therapists, for teachers, for parents, just as a template. As an example, to see one person's stories and letters, it can also help us formulate our own honest letters to ourselves, our own letters.

Uri Schneider: So the people that have said things to us, et cetera. So I just think that the act of writing letters and then the idea of writing letters to your future self, it opens up a world of imagination of possibility with, with people who may no longer be in the world. People who are not yet in the world, like you talked about letters to your future children.

Uri Schneider: Wow. Like, and it allows us to kind of just reflect and unleash our truest, right? Our truest self, our strongest self. And in other moments, when everything's hitting the fan, when we're not in our best state, we can look at what did we write when we were in our best state? What are we right when we were expressing our ideals?

Uri Schneider: And we can use that as, as a navigational North, instead of kind of fumbling our way through in low States and confusing States. It's letter writing is so powerful, but the courage to share it. Wow. But you don't need to share it. First. I tell people all the time in the office, they don't want to write that letter to the teacher.

Uri Schneider: I said, okay, we're not going to give it to the teacher. We're not going to give it to your teacher. Just write the letter that you're never going to give. And often they'll say, okay, you promise. You're not gonna show it to my parents. I promise. And I do. And the next day I got an email from this young lady.

Uri Schneider: She's like, do you have the letter that I wrote? Because I decided I do want to pass it. But creating space for creative writing is a therapeutic cathartic, uh, muscle-building experience. I just want to use James as example as one that others can lean on, whether you stutter or not as a way to express your inner self.

James Hayden: Exactly. Because they're an S you know, since I started writing, I've discovered like the joy and the beauty of writing, because beforehand I would only write for academic reasons, but since I've started to like to write. I, I find myself writing a lot more and I find it so cathartic for me, there are a bunch of things that I've written that will never see the light of day.

James Hayden: go to your point. And for the most part, they're not stimulated. It's just, Oh, I had this really bad day, or I'm stressed about this, this and this or this belief that I've held for so long. I'm not questioning, I don't know. What's the best way to deal with it. Or like, like, like I've had, I've had this belief for so long, but now I'm questioning it.

James Hayden: Like, what do I do with it? And I find just writing has been so beneficial for me. Third times when I, when I, as I'm writing something will come out. I'm like, Oh, that's how I really feel about it. They know that. And it's, I'm at my most honest and vulnerable

James Hayden: with myself and with others when.

Uri Schneider: So we're only at the halfway Mark, but this is already like a meal and a half. This that's what my dad would say. So, so rich, so awesome. It's like, it's like very fine chocolate sitting here and talking with you, James, on your birthday, no less. If you're enjoying the conversation and you're watching us drop your comments, your questions, we'll try to weave it in.

Uri Schneider: If you like this conversation, let us know. You have a like, um, certainly you can message James. You can message me. And if you're listening to the podcast, share it with others as well, because your subscriptions, your likes help James's story go further and reach more people. There are people that are, their lives can be changed or new possibilities can be opened by hearing just one other story.

Uri Schneider: And there's no one story, but it's specifically through the multiplicity of stories, which is my favorite Ted talk, uh, the single story or the myth of the single story that we really truth is not in any one story. It's in the way we. We kind of see things from many different dimensions, many different directions.

Uri Schneider: Um, loved. I just want to share, I, I listened to a podcast this week. How I got to this podcast is another whole story in and of itself, which I won't share, but, uh, it comes from a guy. It came from an email from a person who runs a, an online course called the Rite of passage as like writing w R I T E. And in his email, he was referencing the best podcast he heard in the past year.

Uri Schneider: Guess what? It wasn't transcending stuttering. It was Tim Ferris interviewing, uh, Jerry Seinfeld and talking about the practice of writing and the habit and the discipline and the process that Jerry Seinfeld has put into place to kind of keep fresh and keep productive and keep at the top of his game for five decades.

Uri Schneider: I recommend it to everyone, but I think James has already revealed that he has a lot in common, Jerry Seinfeld. Um, yeah. So just the act of writing it's, it's it's as much as weightlifting. It's a discipline and it's a practice. And from a neuroscience point of view, I think it's fascinating for people who stutter and for everybody to recognize that, um, it's much easier to talk in a neuro neuroscience sense than it is to write meaning thoughts come, they're translated into keywords.

Uri Schneider: They're given shape and form and sentences. And, and the process is rather quick. In fact, it's blazing fast for the brain and it goes down to the motor system and you get speech motor, uh, words and sounds and so on. And obviously people have different ways of producing and sometimes the different hiccups in the process.

Uri Schneider: But writing is a whole nother beast because it slows everything down from the thought your fingers can never blase as fast as your tongue and your teeth and your vocal folds could ever move. So it slows things down. It's a more. Refined and a more deliberate form of communication. And in another way, it's also a much more liberating and free kind of way because there isn't that time pressure right there.

Uri Schneider: Isn't that listener kind of hanging on the cadence of whatever feels like the cadence at the moment. So there's there's, if something very, uh, sophisticated, very rich, sometimes challenging for young kids in school who can't slow down and can't do that planning. And when they're holding this word on the pen, they can't think back what was the previous word?

Uri Schneider: And what's the next paragraph. So like planning a five part essay, five paragraph essay. There's a reason that's not easy human beings. We're not wired to be the best writers. Let's say we're much better with what's right in front of us. So writing is an exercise, it's an art. Um, and I think it's interesting, James, maybe just to talk about like, For you, the relationship between the spoken word, and you've done that on the TEDx stage and then the art of the written word, which you've done in all these incredible places, like the mighty, the stuttering foundation, blog, your book, how do you relate to written expression and spoken word?

James Hayden: So I am more reserved and introverted at my core. So like, like, you know, public speaking and talking, I just kind of say what I need to say and, you know, keep it moving. Whereas with writing, I I'll, I'll go there. I'll be more honest with myself. I'll be more vulnerable and I'll explore different, okay.

James Hayden: Ideas in an unfiltered manner because my orange it's just me and I'll never see the light of day. Whereas with the spoken word, the pay on my audits, I may need to filter myself. Whereas with writing, I can just say. You know what I want and like how I want to say it without having to worry about like the societal norms and what's my audience looking like, and, and all these other things to take into account when we speak,

Uri Schneider: I love it.

Uri Schneider: And I think just again, broadening the topic, the idea of transcending stuttering is that we all have so much to learn and to grow through stuttering, but it doesn't stop here. It doesn't stop with stuttering or stop with one person here like James. So something I find fascinating, cause I work with a lot of young people with all kinds of differences.

Uri Schneider: Some people have trouble reading. I'll be, you know, subject number one. Um, at some point in school, I realized it was taking me a long time to read a page, especially fiction. And I asked one of my high school friends. I'm like, how long did it take you to read that page? And they said about one minute. And I said, Oh, okay.

Uri Schneider: Something's up because it took me like three minutes. By the time I got to the end, I couldn't remember what was at the beginning of the page. So I have borderline dyslexia and I think it's fascinating. I worked at a school called the summit school. It was one of the most impactful experiences in my career, in my life in Queens with kids with all kinds of different abilities.

Uri Schneider: And these were kids that had incredible intelligence in one area and incredible, um, things didn't come easy in other areas. So you can have mathematical genius, but socially not, not the smoothest operators or you could have social smarts, but when it came to books, smarts not so easy. So there was a teacher there.

Uri Schneider: Tina, I'll never forget I'm blanking on her last name, but she taught me something so powerful. She said, you can read with your ears. And she talked about for kids that have difficulty with the written word on the page, let them listen to audio books, you'll get exposed to literature, you'll get exposed to language.

Uri Schneider: You'll get exposed to all the great stuff that you can through your eyes. It's just a different channel. And I often talk about this and it relates back to people who stutter and kids who stutter and the idea of writing and speaking. You have one brain and your language system in the brain. There are two sorts of output.

Uri Schneider: One kind of output is through the spoken word. Another sort of output would be through the hand, through the pen, through typing through the written expression. If two sources of input of language, you can take it in through the ears and listen to someone, take it in through the eyes, through the written word.

Uri Schneider: We need to think about these four modalities and leverage them, especially with people that have a challenge in one channel to think about. Let's not take everybody and make them awesome at that channel. That's most difficult. Let's make sure to leverage all the different channels at our disposal and by doing so the person comes off for the better because they become more.

Uri Schneider: Uh, multitalented multisensory, multi Abel. And often when you strengthen one channel, you get, uh, benefits in the same channel that you thought you wanted to work on in the first place. So I think, for example, someone who stutters working on creating a voice through written expression might seem counter intuitive, wait a second.

Uri Schneider: We're here to help them speak well. Yeah, well that's exactly, what's not coming easily right now. What if we could go through this other channel and learn so much about their inner world and help them express so much of their inner self through this other channel, and guess what, as you said, when you take the lid off of that, all kinds of things, open up all kinds of muscles emerge inside of you and all kinds of fears start to melt away.

Uri Schneider: So I just think let's get creative about thinking about different channels as number one. So kids with dyslexia can read with their ears. People who stutter can express themselves through the written word. That's not to say all the time, but that is to say, to embrace different sorts of expression. Dance music, mathematics, cartooning drawing.

Uri Schneider: I'm thinking of Danielle Rossi. I'm thinking of, of, um, of Shane Garcia who was with me a couple, a couple, a weeks ago with dance. So we have to, we have to recognize wildlife, uh, photography. My son is incredible photographer, um, animal life. There's so many ways that we can help people connect and express themselves, which is not to say that, um, you should put all your eggs in one basket, but that we should embrace different modalities.

Uri Schneider: So I'm not saying take kids with learning challenges or speech differences and like go all in on some other modality. But I think leveraging and moving between them can create openness for a person to express themselves and find themselves. I'm not sure where I started with that, but I know why I said it, James, and I think you resonated and understand why I went there.

Uri Schneider: You could just resonate off that.

James Hayden: Yeah, I definitely agree. And I know for me, Hey, writing is something that I like now, but I don't know if I would've been able to do it as a young kid. Cause for me, I always used writing as, as either you write for like for school, just you're you're writing this report, which okay.

James Hayden: Do that. Not really much you can go into, but to write fiction and would be, for me, it's like right. To think of different, different places in different stories, in different worlds. And I'm not really creative. So like, I couldn't, I wouldn't have been able to do that that well, but also when I, as I got older, it would mean exploring my emotions.

James Hayden: And before I started like writing and doing the book thing, um, that's not something I really want to explore at all. Like I buried emotions, which is not healthy. Do not do that. Like do not bury your emotions personally. I experienced it's not good, but I also, but I wasn't ready yet. And now because I write.

James Hayden: I do find I'm more open to my emotions and willing to process them instead to share them either through the written word or the spoken word with whoever. And I think because of that, because I'm more open with my emotions, my, my relationships are better overall, both, you know, family and friends and coworkers.

Uri Schneider: Wow. So our good friend, Steph lip sec from Colorado, and a bunch of your friends are here and sending lots of love. Steph had a question she's asking about your, what are your current writing habits? Is it still a part of your life, I guess, but she's asking how often do you write and like what type of purpose is it for for personal clarity?

Uri Schneider: Is it for producing content? Is it just kind of a hobby? Do you still kind of put a practice of writing into your life? Not

James Hayden: as much as I want to. Um, I. It's something that I'd do both wise if I'm having a really bad day or if I'm stressed about a lot of things. I just go to my laptop. I have, I have it, it like, like running word documents.

James Hayden: That's been around for three, four years now that I always keep open and just like write whatever I'm feeling, whatever the frustration is or the stress or whatever it is. So that's just my way of, of getting it out there and seeing the good, bad, and the ugly of other situation. And it helps me process.

James Hayden: And if I'm feeling all that again, I can go back to it and just remind myself it's okay, you got this, you'll be okay. It's going to work out. Uh, so I, I write for that part just to clear my head and to be in, because it's Arctic. I also do right. To produce, you know, content like I'm very guilty of starting five different articles and then not mentioning any of them.

James Hayden: I think right now I have one, two, three, four about four or five different articles that I've started and haven't finished. But yeah, most of the time I

Uri Schneider: thought I could, I thought I could compete with you, but I think, I think you might, you might tell me. Yeah. So,

James Hayden: so I write for content to produce content just to keep myself out there and with being a blogger for the Saigon nation and for stamina, I want to continue that.

James Hayden: So I do, I do try write a few pieces every once in a while, but yeah, I write, I feel I'm more writing for content less so than for, for personal growth right now. But I really haven't been able to write as much as I wanted to just because I have a bunch of other work commitments going on right now, which are taking up majority of majority, like my free time.

James Hayden: So I'm not able to like to write as much as I want to enter, finish up all those articles, but this will be an article because doing a Facebook live event has always been a bucket list item just in terms of my growth. Like, it's one thing for me to be on a podcast where you can just

James Hayden: hear my voice, or if I'm, I've done a couple of like YouTube videos, but it's only for a select few people who have access to it. So no, so now I can see it, but this, like, this is going to be available. It's like all, however many million people are going to be on Facebook and can see like the physical acts of me, stuttering and S and, and just to hear it and to see it.

James Hayden: So that's something I've wanted to do for personal growth, but never had the opportunity to, or want to do it. So this will be an article at some point. I'm like what? Dana on a Facebook live thing needs for me. So just an FYI, FYI, I, for you, it's coming soon. Right?

Uri Schneider: Listen, I didn't intend to have you step onto the red dot and there's much more time.

Uri Schneider: I don't know if that's, uh, more challenging or less, but I'm, I'm so happy that you're here and that you're, you're just, you know, you keep pushing your comfort zone. I find that so incredibly inspiring, refreshing and livening,

James Hayden: you have to, because there's no growth in your comfort zone and like no comfort in

James Hayden: your growth zone. And I think in order to just grow as people we always need to, you know, , you know, challenge ourselves and like, you know, have these goals that I want to accomplish because if we don't have those goals, then.

Uri Schneider: Well, one of the things that we love to do, and we did it in the cohort with the speech language pathologist, with the transcending stuttering, uh, experienced together.

Uri Schneider: We, I talk about how do you help young people just start to consider that communication is not one in the same as stuttery. You can be a person who stutters and you can communicate beautifully and you can be a person who speaks fluently and you can be a pretty lousy communicator. And of course you could be on both.

Uri Schneider: You can mix and match that any which way you want. Um, you communicate so beautifully. Thank you. And listening to you is like, it's like a symphony. It's like a beautiful piece of music. And, uh, I know that I can speak for myself. This, I, I will have to honor your time because I think you said your, I won't say what you're doing, but you're vetting some very high level, uh, speaking engagement situations.

Uri Schneider: So we're going to end on the, on the half hour, but. I just want to say James, that I could listen to you all day long and it was up to me. We'd stay for all day long. And let

James Hayden: me, let me, I can go for another 20 minutes. I'm good.

Uri Schneider: Oh, okay. Good then. Um, we'll we'll milk every moment that we got, but I would just say this also for people at different stages.

Uri Schneider: If it's the right time I put on a tape of, let's say a YouTube video that went viral of Parker mantel, gimme a commencement speech at Indiana university. And I ask people, what are three words that come to mind as you listen to this? Man, give his speech or my friend Mo Myrna. Co-wrote the book, the gift of stuttering, which if you Google James, his book, uh, dear world, I stutter, you're going to find a bunch of other good books and I think I'm guilty, but we'll be updating in the next day or two.

Uri Schneider: I'm not sure that your book is listed in this collection that we've got growing. It's a dynamic list of books, stuttering books, to recommend on our blog, but it will be there. But the point is that, um, When you take people and you put up a video of, let's say a Jack Welch doing an interview on TV or Parker Manto or James Hayden, or MoMA learning.

Uri Schneider: And you ask someone, what are three adjectives that come to mind as you watch this person talk. And often the adjectives that come up are like confident, articulate, intelligent, and often it's, it's refreshing for people who stutter to realize when they look at someone else who is, who's communicating in a strong and very confident manner.

Uri Schneider: The adjectives that come to mind, the top three fluency doesn't fall in there. It might be in the top 10. It might be in the top 20, but very often when we look at ourselves in the mirror, all we see are our flaws. So listening to you, James, I think it's so compelling. Um, the way you articulate ideas, feelings, the strength that conviction, that determination, the courage, just oozes shines.

Uri Schneider: Through Facebook live even in the same room with you, but I'm feeling it. It's absolutely remarkable. So I just think it's, it's also use this as a sample use James as just a start starting point, knowing I want you to try to be like anybody else, but to just see, wow, here's someone who has a thousand things that makes him who he is.

Uri Schneider: One of them is this pretty noticeable stutter. But if you had to say, you know, what's hitting you, as you listened to this man speak, I don't know. What are the top three top five things. I don't know if the stuttering is the top of the list and you've got comments coming back about people agreeing with this.

Uri Schneider: If you agree, just keep dropping those likes, but people are just popping on that. Yeah. So go ahead, James. You got, you got more nuggets you want to drop in wisdom you want to share?

James Hayden: Yeah. So we'll go back to what we talk. You know what we started off early with, with Ted, which for those that are watching you see this red X over my right shoulder.

James Hayden: That is my plaque award. Whatever you want to call it for being a speaker at TEDx Austin, 2019.

Uri Schneider: Watching if you're watching, you would notice that I do not have a book behind me. I do not have a TEDx plaque behind me. That's because I have not done some of the very courageous and amazing, talented things.

Uri Schneider: This guy's accomplished. Hopefully he'll be able to slip me in somewhere,

James Hayden: hopefully. But yeah. So, uh, so that's like a weird story. So I remember it was summer of 2018. Um, my best friend and I were hanging out and I won't have them one then. And this was like, what? Six months after I wrote my book and I said, I want to give a Ted talk one day.

James Hayden: He's like, okay, do it, go for it. So I always had the application open on my computer for the big stage, but I never filled it out because of, of, of self-doubt of like, what do I have to say? That's worth, that's worth sharing. What's my big. I did that deserves to be on the tech platform. But then, so I went on, that was an eight month process of going back and forth.

James Hayden: And then in February of 2019, I got an email from my company, no saying that they th th th th th they're hosting the first advertisement, gosh, Nour, and they, and they need speakers. And my first reaction was like, okay, this is my opportunity. I was like, let me apply. But I pull up the application and once again, self doubt crept in.

James Hayden: And they're like, it's like, no, why would they pick you? What I did do you have with sharing, et cetera, et cetera. Uh, so I was on the fence about if I should even, Oh, I'll apply for it or not. Um, and then a week or two, maybe like. At most, a week before applications were due, I had a chance encounter with the main organizer and I gave him my pitch.

James Hayden: Like I can't promise anything, but go for it. So I applied, I made it went through every round of interviews. I then have every bounce. Like that was my best. At least I tried and there's always next year, I got it to my surprise. I got it. And I'm on. So then I had about two months of just of, of like working on my talk rehearsing.

James Hayden: It adds knit, yada yada yada, a long two month process. And then, uh, June 12th, the day came and it was time for me to deliver my talk. And are we talking about like, like w you know, looking back, you can see of where you are too, from where you've come from to where you are and those no land Mark moments in your life.

James Hayden: This is one, that's just one of those for me. Cause this is like the most tangible sign of how far it's come on. My journeys so far. Oh, um, I was the very last speaker before lunch. So the entire morning I was a nervous wreck. Like could not sit still walking back and forth in the auditorium, just a mess.

James Hayden: And then, uh, so the first group went, we had a break and then I went backstage, get miked up very long hours. I had two people in front of me and maybe another video or whatever. So I had to do like 45 minute wait before it was my turn. So I'm pacing back and forth backstage, freaking out, uh, trying to, to use every relaxation

James Hayden: I, I knew of to calm myself down. None of that was working. So finally it was my turn. I walked out, took a deep breath and tell myself it's going to come out the way it's going to come out and it's going to be okay. Um, so it came out. I stuttered super hard for four, four and a half minutes, but I walked off stage like extremely proud of myself for what I have done and it would've been, and it showed me that like, it's still a success, even though I stuttered my butt off for a good four and a half minutes, because the younger me at 2021 would not have seen it as a, as a success success.

James Hayden: He would been mad because he started so much, it's such an open forum. Whereas now I was like, I did the thing. I crossed out something off my bucket list. I started cool, whatever, like I did the thing and it was important for me because it showed me the importance of celebrating small victories, which had been preached to me so many times, but I never listened to, but for me, that was like, okay, okay, James, like you did this, regardless of the fact that you, that you started a lot, you did the thing, you accomplished this.

James Hayden: And celebrate it. And I did, I hugged every single person, no backstage, whether I knew you for months or like, or like just met you. Like, it was probably one of the proudest things I've ever done. And like one of the best days,

James Hayden: all my life. And then after all that, I just had a Tatum moment just to realize like where I, where I was like 18 year old me, no, we're not talking about stuttering. Like no way a 21 on me. Maybe we can talk about stuttering into like certain people boat, but to stutter in front of them that we're not to stutter on Walter, my suffering and that we're not doing that.

James Hayden: Um, and not 26. I was like, I did the thing I stuttered. Okay, cool. But I did it. And in that moment, that day it allowed, it was me doing what I ultimately want to do, which is to be the person I needed when I was younger. And that was showing.

Uri Schneider: Doing what I really wanted to do. There's the, there's the line.

Uri Schneider: That's what it's about. That's the goal. If we had to measure, like, how are we doing with, uh, whatever transcending, stuttering, how are we doing with life? How we play in the game? Jerry Seinfeld says in that interview, he says, if I dropped dead tomorrow, I'd feel like I played the game well, right. And we should all live life that way.

Uri Schneider: Not that we should talk about leaving the world prematurely, but we should, we should aim to live life. Well, and part of living life well is like grappling with the challenges, grappling with the ordeals and how we respond, how we choose to respond. The fact that you got on the stage, even if you looked at it, as you tried and failed, you didn't fail to try.

Uri Schneider: And I wonder if the younger self, not only wouldn't tolerate the stuttering, but you even gotten up there, but you even applied. So it's like, that's another thing just to realize and I'll stop and go back to what you were saying is like, I think people underrate the stuttering tax or the tax that different things.

Uri Schneider: We pay. It's not only at the, at the moment that we step on the stage, it's all the stages we haven't stepped on because it's all the, all the things we really want to do that we don't even allow ourselves to go. It's not the word we got stuck on. It's the word we didn't even dare say it. Isn't the show that we, that we flopped on the stage.

Uri Schneider: It's the dance lessons that we always chose not to take because we knew one day there might be a recital. So whatever that is, if you feel, uh, you know, fine people, it goes back to the recipe. I think James shared out finding an experience that just fires you up. Find a community that continues to fortify that fire and fuel that fire and fan that flame, and then find those great mentors.

Uri Schneider: Those people are gonna open doors for you. It's a great recipe, but otherwise it's like. It's we're all going to be running away from fear. We're all going to try to stay safe because it's a lot more comfortable with stay inside. So I'm more comfortable staying in the comfort zone. But as James said there, we got to learn how to be comfortable with discomfort because that's where the that's where the growth is at.

Uri Schneider: That's where the good stuff is.

James Hayden: Hmm. Yeah. So by doing that, it also allowed me to be the person I needed when I was younger, which is someone who was when I started openly talking about stuttering and just didn't care and did it in a way that is confident. And just like, this was part of who I am and it's okay.

James Hayden: Which I think that's ultimately what I do. What I do is to be that person, the vendor, to be the person I needed when I was 10%, when I was 1821, et cetera. And I hope when I'm 40, I'm the person I needed. You know, right now I like 28. I don't know, know who that person is. I need it right now. But when I'm 40, I hope to be that person.

James Hayden: That I needed when I was 28.

Uri Schneider: Wow. But you got a lot of pages yet unwritten in this journey, but if we had to take a peek at what's in the bucket list, or what's in the five-year dream for James Hayden, it's your birthday. So before you blow out the candles, you know, we got to get your wish. So

I'll

James Hayden: be 33 in five years.

James Hayden: Wow.

Uri Schneider: Um, dude, that's not that old. I just want to say stop that whole,

James Hayden: like I'm 16.

Uri Schneider: God bless. God bless you. Just still look like you're 17 when you're 55. Yeah.

James Hayden: So five-year plan

Uri Schneider: his wishes. What are you hoping to achieve? What are some of those buckets that am still in? Cause you checked off the Facebook, you checked off the Facebook, you checked off writing a book, you checked off the Ted talk.

Uri Schneider: Oh, but

James Hayden: I'll be on survivor. That's like up there for me. Although I would do, I would probably be like first one out, but just to say I did the thing would be cool. Um, maybe do another book at some point who knows. Um, what else? What, what are some, some like big five-year plans, uh, I guess to be, to do more, you know, guest lecturing to do that into maybe do some like internal development training of like, you know, of, of, of, of like, like the quarter roll of, of like, you know, share my story and how do we treat others who are different than us, but also the power of embracing our vulnerabilities?

James Hayden: Nope, Nope. We all have them. It's just that mine introduces itself. If I could introduce myself to you, but to do something like that, professionally do that personally, maybe the book survivor, you know,

Uri Schneider: Yeah. I mean, I have a bias. I'm not interested in seeing you on survivor, but the rest of those is where I want to see you pouring in your time, because you can continue to make such an impact.

Uri Schneider: Um, it's been an amazing chat. Is there any wisdom that you would, this was the question Tim Ferriss asked, uh, Jerry Seinfeld at the end. So I don't regard myself as Tim Ferriss, but I will regard you as, as, as one of the greats out there. Um, he said if you had a banner or a bumper sticker, or like some motto that you'd like to share with people that they could kind of take forward in their life and help them step forward and what they really want to be living, do you have like a little motto or a little bumper sticker or a little slogan that you would want to share?

James Hayden: There's a couple of them you can do more than one. Okay. Um, embrace your vulnerabilities and then

James Hayden: own your stuff. And by that, I mean like, like own. Your quirks, like own your failures on your strengths, own the things that make you, you, whether they're good or bad on them, because that's what makes you

James Hayden: uniquely you and be the person that you needed when you were younger. Those would be my big three.

Uri Schneider: The last one be the person you needed when you were younger. Wow. I think a words to live by, um, I'm fired up and I think, uh, the other thing that you very humbly, um, share is like, be the person that you needed when you were younger for yourself, give yourself the compassion, the understanding, the encouragement, the acknowledgement that you always wanted and needed and deserved, but also through your book, James, and through conversations like this and stepping onto the Ted talk.

Uri Schneider: You weren't just talking to yourself, you're talking to the world and you're paying it forward. So I think for all of us that have gone through and had privilege in our life and for those of us that have had not the easiest go and didn't get a headstart in life, if we make it, if we survive survivor top right shoulder.

Uri Schneider: Got it. Yeah. If we survive, if we make it, we have an obligation to pay it forward so that other people behind us can get their turn. And so I think not only being the person you needed when you were younger, but through that experience. And as you said, part of the gift of grappling with and growing through challenge and difference is also that it reveals inside of us a certain sensitivity, a certain tuning in, and a certain muscle that we built for ourselves that we can also share with generosity and abundance with others.

Uri Schneider: So I am. And I hang up here, but I'm like fired up. What can I pay forward? So thank you, James. Thank you. Everybody drop your likes, your comments, your shares. Check out. There'll be playback on the blog. Should I check out dear world? I stutter. I believe there are a few left in stock. Amazon is restocking consistently, but dear world, I stutter and it's one of the great books, uh, of personal honesty, openness, and, and just absolute insight.

Uri Schneider: And as I suggested, there are different ways. You can take it. You can learn more about James and learn more about change the story. We could also take it as a prototype for your own book, whether you ever publish it or not. You can just write letters to your younger self write letters to the person that you never had a chance to answer back, write letters to the future self.

Uri Schneider: So the future spouse to the future kids. Amazing power in writing. And James has given us a great template to do that and to explore that and see the power of that. Um, and on our blog, you can see the playback of this and you can check out the podcast, Snyder, SPE, uh, it's transcending stuttering with rich Snyder on all the podcasts subscribe like.

Uri Schneider: And again, we can cannot have these conversations by ourselves. We need each other and we need a community. So thank you to you, James. And thank everybody, listening so greatly. Appreciate it. Pleasure. Thank you so much.