#33 New Possibilities with VR with Gareth Walkom
“This software will allow them to practice speaking in a safe space.”
BIO
Gareth Walkom is originally from Basingstoke in the UK and now resides in the beautiful city of Ghent in Belgium. Gareth is a proud person who stutters and leads the way in utilizing how people who stutter and speech pathologists can benefit by using virtual reality as a tool. Working on this topic since 2015, Gareth studied for a bachelor’s degree in Digital Media Technology at Nottingham Trent University, using knowledge from the degree to create a VR application to be used in stuttering. He further developed this application by studying for a master’s degree in Medical Product Design, specializing in combining eye-tracking with VR. The new and improved application could measure eye behaviors such as blinks, eye closures, and fixations. The results indicated that VR could decrease anxiety levels and measure stuttering behaviors, such as those of the eyes. His research has shown that VR has enormous potential to be used as a tool in stuttering, where people who stutter can practice speaking in a safe, controllable place. Since then, Gareth’s work has been featured on the BBC, Independent, Guardian, various TV shows, and podcasts. In Gareth’s spare time, he enjoys attending and speaking at conferences, Belgian beer, and playing unicycle hockey.
Listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts or your favorite podcast platform. You can also watch the interview on YouTube.
EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS
0:00 - 52:10 Types of Virtuality
52:10 - 55:39 Free Access to the Online Course
55:39 - 56:52 The Canadian Stuttering Association
RESOURCE LIST
Gareth Walkom- Research Profile
Virtual Reality May Help Treat Speech Disorders and Social Anxiety Article
Speech Impediments + Virtual Reality (ft. Gareth Walkom) Podcast
MORE QUOTES
“I created some software that could track the exact moment that somebody closes their eyes, how long their eyes are closed for and where they are looking within the scene. With this, the speech therapists can have a look at this information and they can see how much this was associated to their speech. It is a nice free tool for speech therapists.” - Gareth Walkom
“I am having trouble stopping thinking about creative ways to integrate these virtual reality applications into really impactful ways to help people who need to make that bridge from a very sterile, controlled environment into real life change.” - Uri Schneider
TRANSCRIPTION:
uri: And here we are. Good morning on a amazing special day, you know, in our family every day is Thanksgiving. But, uh, certainly for Americans, Canadians got a headstart a few weeks ago. I believe. No, do British people have Thanksgiving Belgians
gareth: now, now, like it's not something that we do. Um, I don't really know why, like, I think it's quite a nice thing to have, um, especially, um, where you are thoughtful of, um, all of the things in your life and to give thanks and.
gareth: Gratitudes, um, to, to all those things and the people in your life. So I think it's something that's really nice to do. Um, so I don't know why we also don't do it like it's.
uri: Yeah, well it's Thanksgiving and if you're not, uh, it might have to do with the fact that it's a more complicated story than just a day to vote it, to saying, thank you.
uri: Expressing gratitude. Um, that's kind of like the cleaned up version, but we're not going to get into the politics. We don't need an excuse to have a day to say, thank you. So today's that day for a lot of people, um, as crazy as a year it's been. And, uh, and there are certainly many people that have been sick and there are people that have lost loved ones and in no way, ignoring that or whitewashing or making light of that.
uri: But for those of us that have been able to stay well enough, It's been a challenging year for everyone in some way. And, uh, you know, I'm thankful for the family that I have that I don't go through this time alone. I have an amazing wife and great kids. Um, and I'm also grateful for people like you who become new friends.
uri: And, you know, we've been able to connect in real time if not sharing the same space, at least sharing this kind of time. And it really speaks to the power of technology to rise to the occasion, which is so perfect. So my name is Reese Snyder. These are conversations and, uh, I do want to let you know, you'd be the first ones to know if you're listening.
uri: Now, we kicked off a, a contest. I figured Thanksgiving was a good time to give back. So if you're interested in winning a pair of AirPods, here's the catch you go to our blog page. And all you need to do is listen and share your favorite. Highlight your favorite quote from all these 30 plus conversations we've had.
uri: We're going to put together an end of year. Mashup edition. And we're going to co-create that with you, people who are listening. So in return, if you'll contribute to that collection, uh, the website's really easy to go to the blog page or Schneider speech.com/blog/contest. Boom. And then by the end of the year, my hope is that we will take those, put them together and create a wonderful episode.
uri: That'll be the best of the best. And I have no doubt. There'll be some gems today. So check it out. When a pair of AirPods, we're going to run this for about a week, week and a half, give people a chance this long weekend to put some stuff in and see where we go. But now without further ado, we have the privilege today.
uri: Most Americans would not do this. So it took a Brit living in Belgium, like good friend, Gareth. Welcome. Um, he is originally from the UK. I'm not even going to try to pronounce the place he's from. He now lives in, is it Ghent? Great. Um, now in addition to being an all around awesome guy, He's a person who knows stuttering from the inside, being a person who stutters and he is leading the way in terms of looking at how we can use virtual reality technology and the science around that to bring meaningful impact into, you know, therapy and next level opportunities for people to move the ball forward.
uri: Um, he's going to help us understand what most of us. Think is very trendy and techie and beyond us, his expertise is really in, in virtual reality and related fields and bringing that into the healthcare space, um, much broader than just stuttering, but he really has probably the best handle on what's possible in terms of integrating virtual reality into the way that we work with stuttering.
uri: And it's a great honor and privilege to have Gareth joining us for the conversation. Thank you.
uri: Tell us what you, what I left out that you think is important and that you might want to share as important pieces of your journey, whether it's, uh, what's current that I missed, or maybe taking us back to, you know, little Gareth. Getting us to where we are today. You you've been, you know, relocated from England.
uri: Now you're in Belgium. You're, you're really globally networked and connected. Um, so fill us in on what you'd like people to know.
gareth: Sure. Um, so am I'm from a town called ed? Pleasing stoke. Um, and, um, and I studied,
gareth: um, but because I wasn't really that much of a fantastic student at school, um, I had to do extra years at college, um, just so that I could get into the university, um, which was. Like a big mistake at the time, but when you're young, you don't really realize stuff like that. Um, until you get into college and you think, ah, like I do need the grades.
gareth: I want a good job. Um, so I better start to study. Um, so then, um, I went to, yeah, like I studied in college and I got the highest grade possible in my course, um, which was a bit of a flip from the bad grades in school. Um, and with those, I decided to study at Nottingham Trent, um, which, um, is the, uh, which is a university in the Midlands in the UK.
gareth: Um, and there I studied a, uh, Punch list to GRI in
gareth: Tisha to media tech. Um, Cotton apology. Um, so this course was basically creating, uh, canes for teaching learning and, uh,
gareth: taming the purposes. Um, and it was also heavily involved in virtual reality as well. Um, and basically in the course, we had to do a project. And there were lots of projects that were there to choose from. Um, but I wanted to do something my own. Um, so I decided to combine my knowledge, um, with something very personal to me.
gareth: And I created a virtual reality and exposure therapy for people who stutter. Um,
uri: so. This
gareth: was basically like a pilot study in a way, but it was a patches recitation. And at that time I had no idea how big this could get. Um, I then decided to take the research to a masters. Um, so I studied a master's in medical products.
gareth: Um, where I improve this further. Um, so I included, um, am I
gareth: okay within my virtual reality?
uri: Uh,
gareth: Project to improve it and to take it further. Um, yeah, so that's basically that part of my life. Um, and it's really kicked off. Um, and it got a lot of media attention it's been featured in the. PBC, um, was even on the news, I think a couple of times. Um, yeah, so like it's done really, really well for itself.
gareth: Um, so I'm really pleased that I decided to choose something personal for, for me.
uri: Amazing. I'm just sharing this with a couple of our friends and groups and if you're watching. Give a, like drop a comment. We'll try to incorporate your comments and questions and you can help us by giving it a like, or a comment or sharing it with people that might appreciate listening.
uri: Um, Garris, you know, like a lot of kids, like video games, not everyone takes it. As far as you have, um, what can you share with us? Lay people to understand it's not just video games, it's not just halo and running around shooting people up, or, you know, army ranger type style games. What, what's the value of the world that you're in because so few people are there.
uri: Um, you're really leading and I think a lot of people overlook the value and sophistication. So if you could bring any light of it, Yeah.
gareth: So, um, um, um, virtual reality, um, instead of having something on the screen, this is now still on the thing, but it uses, uh, Pens pencils, um, in front of the screen. So it essentially increases your filter view.
gareth: Um, so it makes you feel as if you're in the scene itself. Um, and it's also makes the scene with 3d. So it's. A 2d screen. It now becomes the, and it feels as though you are actually there. Um, and there's been lots of research shown to feel, uh, um, um, to, to show that some people actually feel as though they are actually in the scene.
gareth: Um, and they feel like it's a real as well. Um, and this has got many links to, um, social anxiety to, uh, phobias, to, uh, PTSD and so on. Um, so as people can relate to the scenes, they can, uh, uh, if the society, um, and then they can start to work on this anxiety to add, take resets. Um, so it basically, uh, pets of prepares them for the real thing.
uri: Wow. So, if we're thinking about zoom and we're thinking about virtual reality, I've been saying, you know, I wonder what life was like during the Spanish flu, you know, every a hundred years or so, the planet goes through some sort of pandemic or epidemic. If you study a bit of the history, it's amazing to live in these times where technology assume 10 years ago, just, it was, it was Skype for those of you that remember Skype.
uri: It was a bit more sticky. Um, zoom has really made what we're doing right now. Uh, relatively seamless in a way that was unimaginable just a few years ago. How, how far do you think we're going to be 10 years from now? What's a picture of what's possible in terms of we're dealing with a flat screen interaction.
uri: It's one dimensional. You can't smell the fact that I haven't showered in days. You know, um, we're missing some of the sensory experience, but, you know, and, and many of us are missing touching loved ones and sharing a hug and, you know, the smell or the taste of food. How, how, how do you see us moving ahead?
uri: Because you're really in that space. What do you think is going to be possible five, 10, 20 years
gareth: out? So the, uh, cost of these virtual reality headsets will add.
gareth: Okay. Take risks a lot. Um, that will be the first thing, but also at the same time, the technology in these are, I mean, Proving. Um, so we already have, um, uh, am I
gareth: within the headsets? Uh, we also have a E
gareth: um, on some of the headsets, um, There are plans, um, for some headsets next year, to be able to track the facial movements. Um, so that would be a huge step forward, especially for, especially for a speech. Um, then other types of tests let's,
uri: let's, let's come back to that in a moment. Cause you, in all our conversations, you've shared the significance of tracking eye movements.
uri: So I'm interested in coming back to that and why that's such a pivotal piece. But yeah, bring us into, I grew up on the Jetsons, if you, if you grew up on the jets and the strap, I mean, right. There are certain things like the video phone that were, that were foreshadowed and, and were kind of like part of those futuristic impossible along with the flying cars.
uri: And I forgot what the helper at home. I forgot what her name was, but she could like cook up anything instantly. And it was kind of like a vending machine. So a lot of those ideas have come to play. What are some other things? Where could we see just like a consumer experience using VR and AR and all that.
gareth: So I think
uri: about
gareth: holograms, um, maybe not in 10 years, but a bit after that. Um, also, uh, contacts, so contact, um, M a lots of the larger
gareth: companies already have, uh, Patents for this. So you can overlay your few with the, um, with the contacts and enhance itself. Um, so I'm sure that will be, um, in the space a lot. Um, yeah, like I think along those kinds of lines and of course, uh, AI, um, in the future will be a big. I'm influenced as well. Uh, but I think mainly the holograms and contact lenses will be big.
gareth: Amazing.
uri: So I guess Google lens and the spectacles from Snapchat, it was a good first go see more iterations, more iterations of that, not just to capture what you see, but also to kind of give you that interactive experience that right.
gareth: Definitely.
uri: Amazing. You know, I always am amazed human body is so incredible.
uri: Um, you were talking about putting a lens of a chip on a contact lens. It's like, wow, what innovation and it is. But when you stop and you think about the eyeballs and like the optic nerve and visual processing, uh, I didn't prepare you for this, but is there anything in those laboratories and. You know, cutting edge development in virtual reality that compares with the complexity and sophistication of the eyeball and the visual system.
gareth: Um, it's still on the, uh, lower space. Um, so, um, basically the, uh, virtual reality headsets that are out there at the moment are something called a load Tufts. Tiny dynamic range and, um, pay this. I mean, that's, um, it can represent a very high level of permanence in relation to the real, uh, AZ situation itself.
gareth: Um, so the headsets itself have a very long way to go. Um, but yeah, like it's improving more and more, um, and. With the quality of these headsets, we are starting to see, um, something called, um, pixels per inch and pixels per day.
gareth: I agree. Um, improve more and more. Um, so the quality of the, of the scene, um, is. It's much
gareth: clearer to what we see in, in real life,
uri: a little bridge that I wanted to make there, which is amazing. It's amazing to see, you know, in the past 10 years, the acceleration of technology and development. But it's amazing. Also the eye and the visual system is incredibly complex, perhaps only rivaled by my favorite other system, which is the speech motor system.
uri: And so for those people watching who stutter or care about stuttering, I often share that the complexity, the innervation of the vocal folds, for example, there's no part of your body that has as much innovation per unit space as the vocal folds, and the things are the size of your pinky nail. And they move hundreds of times a second in many different dynamic positions in rapid succession.
uri: And so the complexity, the subtlety in way we can say the fragility of the system, it's almost more surprising that people don't stutter than it is surprising that some people do because the speed and the succession and the. The way it's, uh, sensitive to changes in the brain. So whether those are hormonal shifts or biochemical shifts, or, you know, excitement in the brain nervousness experienced in the brain, when the brain changes, there are certain places in your body that it plays out more than others.
uri: One of them is in your vocal folds. And so I just want to put that out there for some people that might be worth thinking about, instead of thinking of stuttering as the deviant thing. It's more remarkable that some people don't stutter because it's truly, uh, incomprehensible to, you know, call that off.
uri: And you've been talking about eye tracking, so you can take this where you want, but I was interested in either your reflections on stuttering and, you know, VR and insights into speech motor, and then brain. And then what you were talking about, the eye tracking and why that matters. I'll also just give a plug while you think for that moment.
uri: I kind of put a lot out there. You can go anywhere you want with it. If you want to see when we put this up for the replay on our blog page, but even on the event page on our website describing this wonderful conversation. Garrett's been on a world tour. He recently spoke and it was shared the Australian speakeasy association.
uri: He gave an incredibly insightful presentation there, which was available on YouTube. And I shared it on our site and he's been presenting, uh, quite actively over the past few months. So it's a big treat to see him. But if anything, you want to see deeper or seem more organized, feel free to check it out, either on our website or search on, on YouTube and we'll share his information as well.
uri: But Gareth yeah. Take that where you want to, because I'm still thinking about the eye tracking.
gareth: So, yeah. So, um, in relation to the, uh, eyes, um, so, um, people who it can sometimes close flicker or fix it in the moment of. Um, in the moment of a Stata. So just like myself, um, and this is only measured, um, in a sub.
gareth: Active way by a speech and language therapist, which is totally fine. Um, but it's very difficult to measure this. Um, especially as a speech language therapist has to measure many different things. At the same time, we have to look at the speech and so on. Um, So, um, what I did for my masters was, um, I used AI tracking virtual reality headsets.
gareth: Um, To, uh, to, uh, track these moments. So I created some software, uh, that could track the exact moment that somebody closes their eyes, how long their eyes are closed for and where they are looking within the scene. Um, And with this, the speech therapists can have a look at this information and they can see, um, okay.
gareth: So at this moment, the, um, clients close their eyes for this amount of time. Um, then they can see how much this was associated to their speech. Um, then over multiple sessions in VR, they can see if these improve through size and types of turf. Kind of therapy. Um, so it basically is a nice tool for speech therapists and also for free, such as two twos.
uri: Fascinating. So it's a little eyeopening, no pun intended. That you can, you can sign great value in terms of what's going on in the eyes and metrics from the eyes to shed light on stuttering. Usually people are looking for what they can hear, um, or what they can observe in that way. Can you share a little bit, is that, is that demonstrated equally across all people who stutter or some demonstrate, uh, more of a presentation and eye movements and the activity in the eyes?
gareth: Um, so it's very varied. Um, and so it's suffering itself. Um, so, um, some people who started, they can close their eyes much more often than others. Um, some people have their eyes closed, uh, for the entire time that they are speaking. Um, but. Yeah. Like, um, with speech therapy, they were basically taught, um, to look into the eyes of your, um, personal, um, it's, uh, it doesn't have to be for the full amount of time because sometimes that can be a bit strange.
gareth: Um, but yeah, like try to look less at the wall and, and more at the person that you are. Uh, uh, YouTube, uh, uh,
uri: uh, speaking
gareth: with, um, and I have a video to share. Um, should I share that now?
uri: Listen, there is an entire audience of people from around the world. They do not want to hear me. They want to see an ear Gareth.
uri: So there is no time like the present. What a treat. You're going to get a demo. Uh, Gareth is going to show us and Anita's here and Danielle Rossi's here. And so many of our friends, so keep dropping comments and questions because Gareth is so next level I'm so out of my league. So I could use your help.
uri: If you have questions or places you want to go, but buckle your buckle, your seat belts. And, uh, what was her name? Doris. I think Daniel Rossi got that. She was the helper. Was she the helper? Danielle,
gareth: uh,
uri: Rosie, Rosie. There we go. Yeah. So I think you've got permission to, uh, share your screen. Go on.
gareth: So, uh, I'm about to show something, uh, that is a video from my masters.
gareth: Um, so this focus case is my eyes. Um, and this is the person that I am speaking to in VR. Um, and it might be very hard to see here, but here are changing in accordance to what I do with my eyes. So whether if I look at the
uri: roof
gareth: or the back wall, the floor or the heads. Um, and, uh, so one of the person that I'm speaking to all of these will change, um, including the amount of time that my eyes are closed for.
gareth: Um, so with this, the speech therapist or the researcher has the information that they need to have a calm, um, and then they can, and then they can advise in whichever method therapy, they twos.
uri: Yeah, keep that up. That is, that is incredible. Uh, just to see this, thanks for sharing this video. Um, so can you share a little bit more of what, you know, just to be clear, you're not a speech therapist, but you're involved in the application of VR in clinical situations for speech therapy.
uri: And I think you'll share with us where you've gone with that. Um, But obviously you're a person who stutters. So you certainly are qualified in my opinion, to be the expert on this conversation about stuttering. What do you see as the application or the way this could be useful in, in a real life clinical
gareth: application?
gareth: Yeah. So it has, can be twos as a tool, um, where the speech therapists can, uh, fully immerse their clock clients, um, in, um, in a signal set choice. So whether I fit B a M I'm interview, uh, Public speaking, uh, a scene like this, where you're just only talking to a calm person and within this, they can basically practice the techniques that they've learned in speech therapy.
gareth: And in this time the speech therapist can track exactly, uh, what the person is up to. Um, they can also offer them as an advice as they are in the, um, and. This is something that is incredibly difficult to do in real life. Um, so in the real, um, situation itself, it's very difficult to control, uh, their situations.
gareth: Um, and it's very difficult to build up to the situation that you want to do. For example, if you want to speak to 40 people, um, She usually wouldn't be the, usually wouldn't go straight into this speech with 40 people. We'd want to slowly increase it from one to five and so on, but even this is hard to do in real life.
gareth: Um, but with virtual reality, you can, uh, take in, uh, make these custom scenes into something that's suits your needs. Um, and you can better prepare for these situations in real life.
uri: I'll just give a immediate example. Right before we got on the call, I recently was working with, uh, a young guy named Darren, not as true name, but Darren was making a list of situations where his stuttering.
uri: Bothers him, his stuttering kind of makes it tough for him to communicate freely. So we made a list of those situations. And then as he's, as he's expanding his comfort zone, as he's speaking more freely and talking about how much more comfortable he feels communicating in different situations, he said, yeah, but I'm on the lacrosse team.
uri: And when it's time for the coin toss, Oh, that's, that's rough. So that's the next thing on his list and what Gareth was saying now, the Holy grail of speech therapy in some ways is how do you bring the encounter of whatever's that therapeutic experience into the person's real life. And, uh, certainly, you know, I can share some ideas of what we do, certainly less some technology, but nothing at this level.
uri: This is next level. So I think is that fair to say that this is really something that can help. Bridge that incredible distance from what happens in a person's real life. And then that controlled laboratory environment where most therapeutic experiences happen, this is a way to make a bridge. Is that right?
gareth: Yes. Yes, exactly. Um, and it's also, it's also a safe herb.
gareth: Um, because the speech therapist is next to you and B because the scene can be totally controlled by the speech therapist who should know to what extent you to kind of experience the situation. Uh, but also it can be stopped at any time. Uh, which of course is very difficult to do in real life.
uri: So I'll give you the example.
uri: You tell me where we could put some goggles on this kiddo, but, uh, he wanted to do the coin toss. So I did a screen share like your screen sharing, but my screen share was on Google. I found a virtual going to us and I had his mom sit down with him. And I created different levels of pressure where I kind of pretended to be the umpire or the referee.
uri: And I said, okay, it's, it's Showtime, it's playoffs. Here we go. You better call it before it falls. And I tried to create some artificial time, pressure and social asked about it. Uh, and then we did the coin toss. And what do you know? He had a pretty easy time, but that doesn't tell me. That he experienced something that was similar to what he'd experienced in real life.
uri: So it was therapeutic, but I certainly felt limited. Where would this come in? How could this be applied if we take that very real life scenario?
gareth: So instead of the situation, that's, I'll just stop this video here now. Um, so instead of the, um, situation that you were in, which is a.
gareth: Hold on one situation, I guess, on as soon or something. Um, um, he would be placed in a totally, um,
gareth: so he would be in the chosen. Environments to represent that scene. So there would probably be people around him, I guess. Uh, there would be, uh, noises in the scene. Um, and with this, you have a more realistic. Press box and you can better it's related, um, into the real thing. Um, yeah, so, um, you can basically control these situations.
gareth: You can change the amount of people in there. You can change the faces of the people that are in the scene, make them maybe look a bit meaner, um, and just try to test the person. Um,
uri: Gareth can tell you the first time that we spoke, we scheduled, I don't know, an hour and about two and a half hours later, he was still crushing it. This is so important, often overlooked, and I'd love Garrett to share what he's doing with some of this, but to lead into that, I just want to share as a clinician, working with so many people who stutter.
uri: It's interesting to me that so many people don't realize that this situation, the context, it's not just about me and a sound or a word, a lot of the triggers and levers that can make it a exacerbated experience, more stuttering, more often or more intense, or have less stuttering and have it be less intense, uh, is very much influenced by situational context.
uri: And so it's not uncommon that going over to a person of one gender at a social gathering might trigger it differently than walking to a person of the other gender, depending on the dynamics that might be there of attraction or pressure or judgment, also how attractive they are, uh, how tall they are relative to you.
uri: Um, you know, your position. I remember when I was in grad school, I had a professor. His name was dr. Phil Schneider. The greatest the goat. Um, and it was a lot of pressure to do the homework. So he gave the classic assignment to all the grad students go out and do some pseudo stuttering practice. What it's like to fake, uh, what it might be like to experience a stutter.
uri: And you've got a group of really exceptional students. Um, I managed to squeeze in because I had some connections. Uh, but the best of the best at Queens college, big shout out to QC my Alma mater and I here, I have this son of the professor and I am avoiding this exercise until it was the last day. It was like two hours before lecture.
uri: And I find a place. Where it was like a anti way, like a corridor where there was like a door into the building and then another door. So it was like a passing situation. I wasn't going to get stuck there. I could escape lots of doors. And I noticed who did I choose to do this with someone very short, someone of the opposite gender, someone that appeared to be a foreigner.
uri: And I made all kinds of judgments. To choose this person because I knew I felt a certain amount of comfort, a certain amount of control. And the, the lesson for me was that, what if I didn't have that choice? What if I wanted to speak freely with anyone in any situation? And all of us have different levels of discomfort in different situations, but for a person who stutters this can be so instrumental important, that makes such a difference.
uri: So I think what you're talking about, the ability to manipulate the. Yeah, atmosphere, the environment in which the person is having this experience is a major contribution to what could be done clinically. So maybe you could share a little bit about how you're bringing that, bringing that forward and what kind of things people can take advantage of.
uri: Yeah.
gareth: Um, hi now actually starting to make this, um, into something that people can use. So all of the knowledge, all of the experience, uh, the skills that I've learned over many years of a. To university of speaking with other people who stutter with speech therapists and researchers, um, I'm now making this into something that's people can use.
gareth: Um, and basically as a toolkit, so it's open to them. Um, and to however they want to a. It, um, because, um, not only do I think it's really important that's this is used, but it's also something that I really, really like to do. Um, I, I, uh, loved my masters, um, and it's, um, like from a personal side of things, um, It was something that I really liked to, to make.
gareth: Um, so now I'm actually, uh, moving into this full time, um, very, very soon. Um, and I'll be, uh, I'll be okay. Pushing for full speed ahead on this. Um, so that's real people can start to use it, whether it be a speech therapist, a researcher, or, um, a person who stutters or even, uh, someone with a speech. Test order.
gareth: Uh, and they just want to practice speaking in a safe place. Um, their software will allow them to, uh, to, to take it out.
uri: I love that. And I think the other, the other added value here as, as, uh, Gareth keeps sharing is the safety of it. I think very often. Both in certain circles of self-help and also in certain therapeutic experiences, people are encouraged sometimes even pushed beyond their comfort zone.
uri: Um, and that can be stressful. And sometimes we grow through stress. Like when you're lifting weights, you can't build muscle. If you're just doing, you know, one kilogram at a time. So you've got to create some stress in order to have growth at the same time, too much in the wrong timing, in the wrong way.
uri: Can have a scarring effect. It can be hurtful. So the beauty of this is the ability of the person to pull the plug on it. Um, I'm so excited that you're talking about going ahead, full speed, but I think it would be more appropriate to go at ludicrous speed or Lightspeed given, given the nature of what we're talking about.
gareth: So, um, this will basically allow, uh, the person in control to adjust the scenes into, um, into something that's custom sizable, um, where they can, they can create a certain scene with. Um, with how many other people they want to practice speaking, uh, there will be sounds in there and so on. Um, so it will be really realistic.
gareth: Um, and yeah, like I'm, I'm really pleased that I've actually made this story because it's something that I've been hoping to do for a very long time. Um, and yeah, like just speaking to, uh, to, uh, To other speech therapists and to people who start and so on, um, it's still really, really needed. Um, so yeah, I can really, I'm excited about the future.
gareth: Um, but of course, um, I, I have learned all of these things from, from my past, from the, uh, from the stuff I've studied at the university, even from my speech of.
gareth: Therapy. Uh, I had, I had, um, so when I was about 17 or 18, um, I, I, um, today, uh, um, intensive speech and repeat course at , um, which is a very pronounced, uh, um, uh, as this. Hands-on um, and this really shout
uri: out to city lit and it's hard to keep track where Gareth was at. So city lit is located in London. If you have the privilege to be in the UK, check it out.
uri: Yeah.
gareth: Like it's a great place with really nice speech therapists. Um, and this speech therapy, the speech therapy really changed me. And not only. My speech, but it changed the way that I think about my, uh, Stata. Um, because in the past it was something that I fit. It was something that I thought was bad. Um, but actually I've kind of turned that these negative thoughts upside down into something that hopefully pay come my.
gareth: Greatest, uh, sorry, sorry. Um, so that course really, really helps me, um, Evan on the line. Um, and yeah, like other courses that I've done, even your course online, um, it's.
uri: Hold that thought, I just want to lean into something else you said, and then circle back. Cause I do want to get this free consulting from you in terms of how we can incorporate VR to just take what we're doing to the next level.
uri: But you said you've transformed it into your greatest asset or greatest strength. I forgot the way you said it, but I always find that fascinating as a person who. Has such admiration for people like you, uh, people who,
gareth: for
uri: those of us that don't have to measure our words or wonder if our mouth is going to cooperate with us this time around or doubt, because we're pretty sure it's not.
uri: Um, so when I see people who, who live with stuttering and I think a good analogy, my father likes to use is like, I've got this allergic cough right now. Thankfully I'm healthy, but every few minutes I have an involuntary interruption in my respiratory system. I didn't ask for it, not my fault. And I could either cancel all my meetings for the next three months or two, the best I can and lean into it and, and use mute.
uri: So I don't blow your ears off, but being considerate of others and considerate of myself, I can carry on a person who stutters. It's not three months is often a longer relationship with stuttering. And so I have the utmost admiration and I think that people like yourself are truly heroes. Could you share something about how this albatross kind of transformed from something that gave you these nagging negative thoughts, perhaps even NATS.
uri: Um, and then, you know, you're talking about turning it into a superpower from kryptonite superpower for people that don't get that, or what does that mean to you?
gareth: Yeah. So with a stressor, I mean, it's very, uh, normal for, uh, people would have many, a negative thoughts, uh, lots of fears, lots of anxiety. Um, there's lots of things that you choose not to do.
gareth: Um, Because of your speech. Um, so in the past I would avoid certain situations, um, and those negative thoughts would build up and up. So then you would really, really avoid them. Um, also avoiding certain words. Um, but yeah, like with the speech. Therapy it really assessed. Um, what's kind of under this. The, uh, so there's the typical, um, suffering, um, am I suppose an allergy where there's stuff on the top of the iceberg is the stuff that you see, which is the stuttering, all of the eye, uh, closures and so on, but underneath there's actually a lot that you don't see.
gareth: Um, and. As you kind of address these issues, it's tough to not only improve your speech, but it increases, um, parties improves quality of life. Um, and from then on, I decided that's. Yeah, like, um, I, I, I can speak in, in all sorts of situations and I should just, um, I should just talk with
uri: them. Uh, Um, if I won't
gareth: see it.
uri: So just so everyone knows, like that's probably the most powerful few moments right there. The rest of the conversations kind of cool, but that right there was pretty Epic from my point of view. Um, I think you could listen to that again. I could listen to that again. If you're listening, that might be one to put in the raffle.
uri: So if you're joining now, we do have this contest going. We're looking at co-create with everybody. An end of year highlight reel. So we've launched it today. You can go to the blog page, Snyder, speech.com/our blog. And you'll see if you just scroll down a little bit or right at the top, there should be a post about a contest.
uri: And it's very simple. Listen to one of these conversations or more. We've got 30 plus conversations up and available. You can watch all of them for replay on our blog page. Um, and we're going to make a highlight reel of the. Quotes the inspiring insights, the best of the best. We'll put that together for the end of 2020.
uri: Cause everybody needs something nice the end of this year. Uh, and if you do that, we will enter you into a free raffle to win a pair of AirPods. So I'm just giving it away right here. That was, that was Epic right there. Um, you mentioned was excited when you reached out to share with me about really awesome things.
uri: You're doing. I also, you know, asked you to take a look at some of the things we're doing with this transcending stuttering Academy and trying to think about it's really tackling the same problem from different angles, which I think all good people are trying to do. If, if you have local, uh, resources available, if you're in London and you can access city lit, or you can access the Pailin center or you're in a place where you can access the best professionals in the area that know what they're doing with stuttering, fantastic.
uri: But many people. Find themselves geographically distant or financially, you know, challenged to access really good care for stuttering. What you're doing is I think really going to be some really Epic stuff to break down those boundaries. And I shared with you our online course, and then the cohorts that we created these eight week weekly groups for teens and adults using the course.
uri: But the magic really happens through the community. Can you share anything about what you saw there and how you could see we could infuse, but enhance do better with some of your insights and some of your, your development.
gareth: Yeah. Um, so, um, especially with the, um, Virus at the moment. Um, it's very difficult to give speech therapy in person.
gareth: So of course it's now switched to video chats, which, um, does have its good parts, but also. It's like, it isn't quite the same. And this assess a number of things like he can't do. Um, and you don't,
gareth: good. Um, because it addresses many different aspects of stuttering and it really makes you think taped down part is happening in these moments. Um, Yeah. And, um, like I think that's the way that it, lots of stuttering therapy move towards, um, because of course you can access more people. Um, Uh, not only in the same region, but all over the world.
gareth: Um, and as it's on their laptop, as you have a PDF, which you can print off and do all sorts of stuff for, for, um, I think it's a great move forward. So like, I definitely think that there'll be more things like this in the future.
gareth: Amazing.
uri: And you can see Gareth's, uh, in-depth review, but, uh, It was really great to hear Gareth see value in that. And the goal is not reaching people, but giving, putting things within people's reach, you know, and helping people experience real growth and breakthroughs in whatever way they're looking for.
uri: So that's what we do. And that's why these conversations are so informative for all of us, everyone who's listening and for us, well, um, someone asked, I don't know him, but I wonder if from his name, you might recognize the name Gert.
gareth: Um, maybe,
uri: well, girt, thanks for joining us. Um, are there already, I think movies, uh, or maybe he means scenes in VR or he, or she, uh, to use with an audience of 40, a hundred, 200 people, like you were saying where you could kind of give someone that experience and dial it up.
uri: Does that exist? Or the video you showed us was really just, you know, one person. Yeah.
gareth: So, um, I think his name is
gareth: Ted, um, because, and it's a Belgium name. So to just touch on the, uh, Um, so there isn't really that much. Thank you.
uri: Thank you for
gareth: that. That's okay.
uri: Speech therapist, but I am, I am experienced with having my name mispronounced and I am notorious the notorious mispronounced of names. I got together socially with someone from Sweden and, uh, he had an HP printer and he was asking me, can you help me fix, I have an HP ink yet.
gareth: I found
uri: out that the Swedish also the J turns into a Y obviously people that speak Spanish, the double L and lots of other things. So in Belgian, did she turns into a Y
gareth: as well? Um, Into an, uh, into an app. Yeah.
uri: Um,
gareth: very it's like for example, a guy would become.
uri: So, thank God. Thank God. This is our first language and we're used to all these
gareth: no
uri: rules rules. Yes. Um,
gareth: so the stuff that exists at the moment, there isn't really anything out there that's you can control. Um, in kind of a speaking situation, um, there are some, uh, stuff, um, uh, some, um, apps that you can use, which are for social anxiety, which, uh, are, uh, public speaking and so on.
gareth: Uh, but they don't really address speech. It's more of kind of, uh, practicing in an anxiety.
gareth: Provoking situation. Um, and they don't really allow you to control the size of the audience. Um, so there's basically two different types of reality. Um, one is where you create the 3d models, like what I showed in the video and once we used, um, and the other is where you show a pre recorded video. So you see a video of a real scene that's been prerecorded and these are where most of the virtual scenes are at the moment.
gareth: Um, but with these scenes, they're very hard to change, um, because you would need another prerecorded scene in the change that have made. Um, so in that sense, you would need all of these of videos in public. Uh, um, place, um, but with, uh, creating stuff as a 3d model, you can adjust this in fields time.
uri: Incredible. Wow. So we heard from hurt. Is that how we say it?
uri: Yeah. So yeah, he said his name, his name was hell in his younger days, but now he's an SLP and a person who stutters. Um, yes. And, uh, Anita says she wouldn't want to be called that in Swedish. I won't even, I won't even go there, but Anita, the same person you're thinking of as the person who made the comment.
uri: And of course, Danielle Rossi, who says his name is mispronounced anywhere outside of Italy. It's a shame. He lives in Canada.
gareth: Uh,
uri: uh, I will say my name, I think takes the cake when I've got my first Blackberry. I knew when I remember those, um, it was before zoom, so they had a little button in the middle and you'd click it to send, but it would ask you, do you want to change any of the spelling?
uri: And if you just kind of kept clicking it, eventually it would. Send your email. So I was sending a very important email. Uh, I think it was like a job application or something like, I'm your man and the Blackberry's like, you know, it's not sending. So I just figured what most people do with a computer. Just click some more.
uri: That usually works. So I click away only to realize after it's sent, I had triggered it to fix all the misspelled words, but it got to my first name Yuri or I pronounced hurry. And here I was sending my. Application for an important position. Uh, I'm your man, yours truly urine that was before you could pull things back.
uri: So thankfully Gmail has that feature. I'd recommend it to everybody. They could pull things back and thankfully VR is bringing us forward and, uh, Gareth is leading the charge. So I just want to share your contact. If anyone wants to reach you Gareth, where can they do that? Sure. Um,
gareth: so, um, it's my first name and then my last name@gmail.com.
uri: Fantastic. So first name, last name@gmail.com. Uh, I would love to invite everyone to consider highlights from this very conversation. You can head over to our blog page, enter the contest. Boom, you could win a pair of AirPods and it's Thanksgiving weekend. I got a little surprise. What I want to do is some of the people I mentioned have already gotten access.
uri: I'd like to give free access to the online course for anyone that would like to see it for this whole Thanksgiving weekend through Sunday, all you have to do is go to our website, drop us an email on the contact us page. And we'll send you a code that will give you access to take advantage of the course.
uri: And I just want to thank Gareth. Um, this has definitely been one of the most visually stimulating and eye opening conversations that I have had the privilege to have. And since our first conversation and more so today I am having trouble. Stopping thinking about creative ways to integrate these kinds of things.
uri: These virtual reality applications into really impactful ways to help people who need to make that bridge from a very sterile, controlled environment into real life change. And I just want to encourage everybody to learn more about what Gareth is doing. Get in touch with them. If you're interested, whether it's on the research side or the application side, look at his videos, which will be posted on the replay on our blog.
uri: Um, but you can also look up the Australian speech easy. I think that's one, I don't know if there are others that Gareth would share.
gareth: Um, so they. Okay. Canadian suffering association, I think is only available to, um, people who signed up to the events. Uh, but I can always, um, share my slides, um, and stuff. Um, and I also presented at a VR conference, um, uh, on Saturday actually.
gareth: And this was totally in VR. Um, so I can also share those slides as well. Um, if you would like to see their
uri: slides. Amazing. So I feel like someone just took my shirt off. My virtual background just disappeared. So this is the little cubicle I'm in and those walls are actually, uh, just behind them is a great material to absorb sound as is the ceiling.
uri: But, um, Gratitude is the attitude. Authenticity is the way to go. Garrett, thanks so much for this wishing everybody a happy Thanksgiving. Uh, whatever your situation is, when you can find something to focus on and have gratitude, it doesn't take away the challenges of life, but it does make things a whole lot more meaningful and a whole lot more bearable and even give you a chance to thrive even in the midst of very challenging situations.
uri: So I hope everybody takes advantage whether you're an American, a Canadian. Uh, Belgian having your chocolates or, uh, you know, having tea time in England, be American for a moment and enjoy Thanksgiving. If you can't get your hands on a drum, stick of a Turkey, you just give thanks and feel American for a moment.
uri: Wish everybody an awesome day, a great weekend and big, big things to Gareth and all the people that have joined us. Please give a like share and next week we've got another great conversation. Check it out on our. Website, Schneider speech.com/events. Take care, everybody, all the best.