Listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts or your favorite podcast platform. You can also watch the interview on YouTube.

BIO:
Ana Paula G. Souza Mumy, MS, CCC-SLP is a trilingual speech-language pathologist and clinical assistant professor in the Speech-Language-Hearing department at the University of Kansas. She facilitates the clinical team in the Language Acquisition Preschool and the fluency team at the Schiefelbusch clinic. Ana Paula also teaches the graduate Fluency Disorders course at KU and co-leads an adult chapter of the National Stuttering Association. Additionally, she recently co-founded Spero Stuttering, Inc., a nonprofit geared toward advocacy for the stuttering community via the better equipping of SLPs. She is currently pursuing a clinical doctorate in speech-language pathology, with a focus on bilingualism and stuttering. Ana Paula enjoys singing, writing, and traveling with her husband and two kids. Uri Schneider, M.A. CCC -SLP is co-founder and leader at Schneider Speech; creator and host of Transcending Stuttering; and faculty at the University of California, Riverside School of Medicine.

0:00-7:44 Intro

7:44 - 9:43 Preschool Webinar on the Stuttering Foundation

9:43 - 20:59 The International Stuttering Awareness Day Online Conference

20:59 - 24:59 Understanding Stuttering Therapy

24:59 - 25:30 The Transcending Stuttering Framework

25:30 - 27:28 Michael Sugarman

27:28 - 39:49 Difference between Being a Generalist and a Specialist

39:49 - 42:12 Does Bilingualism Cause Stuttering

42:12 - 46:12 Benefits of Bilingualism

46:12 - 52:25 The Experience of Stuttering in Brazil

52:25 - 54:32 Parting Words

54:32 - 59:18 Scholarship for Grad Students and Doctoral Students

59:18 - 59:46 Feedback about the Podcast

Resources

Spero Stuttering Inc

MORE QUOTES

“As a professional, I would say probably the biggest thing (shift) was just viewing stuttering more as a difference, as opposed to pathology, you know, really understanding stuttering as human variation and just something that's different in the way that people speak, but not necessarily something that is broken or a pathology that has to be fixed or something that has to be eliminated.” - Ana Paula Mumy

“In my research, I have been able to kind of merge my love of stuttering, but also with my love of bilingualism” - Ana Paula Mumy

TRANSCRIPT:

Uri Schneider: All right. Well, there is no one I'd rather be kicking off this next season, coming back from a bit of a hiatus from Facebook live. My name is Marie Schneider here with Anna Paula, Mumy. I feel like, um, we talk about the tin man and the lion who didn't have his courage. And I click my heels and I say, Hey, I could be in camp.

Here we are. So Anna, Paula Mooney on the ground in Kansas, or we can click our heels and go into some other space, but, uh, it's a big honor and privilege. Um, we've got some cool things going on in case you are just coming to the party. Um, before I tell you more about Anna Paula and Spiro stuttering, uh, we've got this gratitude challenge going and I'm going to share one quick anecdote.

That's already had a big impact. In my everyday life might not virtual life, but my actual real life, you can go to a transcending, stuttering.co. It's a free challenge, uh, for people who stutter and for SLPs. And we have a wonderful person, Marie, uh, she's on Instagram had thanks, Morris. She's crafted some incredible prompts.

Now, before we even got started. She said, just start thinking about something you're grateful for. As we kick off. And today, Thursday, we posted the first prompt. It's going to be 14 days, seven prompts. You can take as little as 30 seconds or as much as five minutes to reflect. So it hadn't even started yet, but it was on my consciousness.

And I came into work yesterday and I see the janitor and he's doing what he does every day. And it occurred to me. What would it be like if he didn't do what he's doing? The floors would be dusty. There wouldn't be hand towels. When you go to the bathroom to wash your hands, hopefully, uh, things wouldn't be as tidy things, wouldn't be as clean and fresh to walk in, do the work that you do.

So the first thing was, I felt gratitude. I had a moment of acknowledgement and I said, you know what, let me verbalize it. And I took the time, walked over the phone and I said, I just want to thank you. There are a lot of people that have done this job. Didn't do it with such a smile, such grace, let's say, thank you.

Not only did he light up, it changed the rest of my day. So I'm just sharing how small exercises of intention, like this gratitude challenge can have an impact far beyond those 30 seconds. And it just takes a commitment of I'm going to try something with a community of people. Let's see what happens and you see what other people are grateful for.

And you come up with things that you. Enjoying, but not really savoring as my father likes to say, letting it percolate a good brewed coffee. So without further ado again, that's transcending stuttering, that CEO that's the new address for all transcending stuttering things. Let me share with you with whom we have the honor this morning and Nepal, a Mooney is.

Not just anybody. She was part of one of the first cohorts of transcending stuttering, but that's not her biggest claim to fame. She's the president and co-founder of Spiro stuttering.org. She's a trilingual speech, language pathologists and clinical assistant professor in the speech language hearing department at the university of Kansas.

She facilitates the clinical team at the language acquisition, preschool, and the fluency team at. Help me on this one, shameful Bush Stiefel Bush. I'll be URI Snider, and there'll be of shuffle Bush. The Schaffer chief of Bush clinic she's teaches the graduate fluency disorders. Course it K U co-leads and adult chapter of national stuttering association.

And if that wasn't enough, she's also currently pursuing a clinical doctorate as well as board certification as a fluency specialist on the side. Anna Paula, enjoy singing, writing, reading, and traveling with her husband and two kids who I had the privilege to meet in Austin, Texas. That was like the highlight of the conference.

And if you haven't heard a good song lately, you can check out her latest, uh, share. Um, in honor of ISAT international study, we're in a state, a beautiful stunning composition, uh, written and performed by Anna Paula and shared with great courage and without further ado. Anna Paula, welcome to transcending stuttering podcast.

What would you want to share with people that's not on that? Um, wonderful intro. There's so much more to all of us behind the intros on the websites. What would you want people to know that it doesn't appear there?

Ana Paula Mumy: So I would say, um,

Tying it to, um, even why I'm here and just kind of my journey of, um, formation to get me to this place of, um, being involved in the stuttering community. Um, I would say, um, as you know, I'm a Christian and I believe that God has me here for a purpose and, um, And I, I feel like I'm just, there's so much intertwined with, um, how I'm here in terms of just my belief that God is directing my steps and, and really kind of orchestrated things in my life in such a way that has brought me to this place.

And so I think that would be one, um, aspect that maybe doesn't come out in other locations or avenues, um, of just, you know, bios and that kind of thing. Um, And I would say to, you know, stuttering, I say that stuttering found me. Um, I wasn't looking for centering and, um, the catalyst was my son. Some of you probably have heard that, um, He started to set her when he was about three, three and a half.

And I had been an SLP at that point for 15 years, and then just realized how inadequate I felt and how little I knew, and really just didn't even know where to begin. And so that was kind of the beginning of my journey. Um, so yeah, that would be my, I guess the, the, the maybe less publicized part of, of my journey.

Uri Schneider: I think that's awesome. Yeah. I never, I never knew that that was a piece. So that's really cool. I remember, you know, we all juggle how we show up for different meetings. And I do remember that in the cohort you were in your pickup truck sometimes coming back from Sunday morning services and the intersectionality, very literally different roles in different places that we sh.

That's awesome. That's awesome. So I think that's fascinating how we all got to where we are, what we're doing, where we're going. So you want to share a little bit more like how stuttering found you, what that process was, and obviously how that may have float into where you find yourself as the president of the Spiro stuttering Inc foundation.

Ana Paula Mumy: Yeah. So the very first thing that I did when I realized how little I knew, or, you know, just in my sense of. Inadequacy and just not really knowing where to start. I just started Googling what, uh, pre-school webinars might be available or because of my fund was preschool age at that time. And so I, um, found the preschool webinar, um, on the stuttering foundation website by Kristin Comella, which was, um, very good and, and just, I felt, um, really.

Just, you know, some direction there. And I loved Kristen so much. I'm like, Hmm, I'm going to check her out a little bit further. And then learned that she, um, of course directs the camp, shout out, um, camp for children who stutter. And I learned that I could go as a trainee, um, as an SLP trainee and, uh, did that right away.

Um, there was an opportunity in August of that year, 2015. Um, and camp shout out really changed me. Um, I think too, as a parent and as a professional, there was just so much, that was, it was just a beautiful experience. Um, Kristen and Julie are amazing, uh, leaders of that, um, experience. And I just, um, came away just having heard the stories of those children and just spending time with them for that full week.

Um, And really being kind of in the minority as far as a person who doesn't stutter. Right. Um, and, um, just met beautiful people. And I, um, and I really walked away from that experience, feeling like this is my calling. Like, this is what I'm supposed to be doing, even though I loved speech language pathology.

Um, the 15 years that I had been practicing and I felt like I was, um, doing things that I enjoyed and the area that I was most involved in was working with bilingual families because I'm trilingual. And, um, and that kind of had been my niche or just the area that I had focused on for a lot of years. Um, but I just felt the sense of like, this is my purpose.

This is what God is calling me to. Devote more time to, and so, um, that year I submitted, um, this piece, this creative piece to the international centering awareness day, uh, online conference. And through that, I met amazing people and I also met, um, Daniella, uh, in Brazil who is doing amazing work, um, along with Luciana.

With the, uh, , which is a fluency workshop, um, that's kind of the best translation for their organization, but they're doing a lot of training there. Um, For speech language pathologist, um, largely because of similar reasons that we just don't get enough training in this area. Um, so anyway, that just opened a lot of doors and connections, um, that I didn't have before.

And, um, and I would say too early on, I ran into, or across your dad's, um, train settings that are in documentaries. And that was very powerful and just love hearing him. And, um, anytime that I get the chance, I, uh, Take that opportunity. Like I did just, was it this week or last week with the counseling? Um, so there's the

Uri Schneider: counseling.

Yep.

Ana Paula Mumy: So that was awesome. And anyway, so I just was soaking everything up. I was trying to, um, just become involved in as many things as I could. I became a chapter leader, um, with the national centering association. Um, Then in 2017, I went back to camp shoutout, um, met John Gomez and was able to, um, attend the, when I stutter screening in Kansas city that same year, which was amazing.

And, um, and really it was, um, the first time. So my husband was able to go with me that year to that screening and. Watch the documentary with me. And it was like the first time that he really understood, like, why is Santa Paula spending this much time on this? And like, why is she, has she been captivated and consumed with centering now for the last two years?

Cause by that time, I think. Our son, um, the centering did resolve, um, for him what persisted was Tourette's so he does have Tourette's syndrome and it's, um, thankfully relatively mild, I would say, um, at this point it fluctuates as does stuttering, but, um, mostly just motor ticks and some vocal ticks, but nothing that's too bothersome or impactful in his life at this point.

Uh, But anyway, it just really was a good, um, experience for us as a family to be able to watch that and to really understand like why, why am I doing what I'm doing and understanding the, the centering experience a little bit more deeply. Um, and then. The next year I went to the friends conference and really was able to, um, I think for the first time, hear the stories of other parents with children who stutter and understanding, you know, their fears, their questions, just their own journey in that process.

And, um, And that was really impactful for me. Um, I started teaching closely disorders at that point, um, at KGU and, um, in that time was also the time where, cause I had to invited some of my, I sad friends that I had met to come speak to my class and just began hearing more and more about just bad experiences with speech therapy and, um, just confusion and some of the things that.

Um, individuals were communicating through their stories and, and then I became, uh, reading the literature and then realizing, oh my goodness, like the literature confirms a lot of what I'm seeing, right. In terms of, we don't get enough training. So many SLPs feel inadequate and uncomfortable and they don't feel confident approaching stuttering.

And, um, so everything I was experiencing and seeing, I was seeing confirmed in the literature too, um, And that just began to stir something in me. Um, and one piece that I left out was that my sister has, um, sons who stutter as well. And so definitely I I'm fairly confident it's in our family history somewhere.

Um, not identified, but definitely I think there. And so she was also struggling to find. And SLP to work with her sons. And at different times I was somewhat serving as a consultant for her, just trying to help her navigate all of that. But it just became more and more apparent to us that there was this huge gap in training and in just how we approach, you know, stuttering and in our confidence level as professionals being the ones to work with people who stutter.

That was the, the thing that really, um, kept coming back to us. And so in 2020 is when we launched a Sparrow and we wanted. Really to incentivize more training and more involvement in the stuttering community. And that, um, was our main focus really to, um, provide the path for SLPs to, to be able to carve out time.

To do that, but then also giving them some funds, you know, making us five and available to SLPs, to be able to pursue more training and, um, and really grow professionally, you know, in the area of stuttering. So that's the short of it. And that's the short

Uri Schneider: version. That's, what's beautiful. Lots of friends popping in here on the live videos.

We've got Patty Bowman from Wisconsin and Choi clean from long island. And far as on the Texas and Lucy from Alabama, Derek from Michigan, your a, you spend north America to south America, east, west, it's truly, truly like a Dorothy, um, clicking our heels and going way beyond Kansas. What do you think. In that whole story.

What do you think really shifted from the perspective of here you were a license that's LP well into your career? How did your outlook shift or become enhanced? What did you shed and what did you start to incorporate? What changed as you went through the experience? Not just as a professional, but suddenly as a mother.

Um, what do you feel shifted or changed in a way that that was different than before?

Ana Paula Mumy: Um, I would say as a mom, um, Just this sense of, um, accepting. Differences in your children that I think of course, you know, all of us we'd have kids and we want them to be perfect. If there is such a thing as perfect, right.

We just, we want our kids to be healthy and we want our kids to be able to, um, have a full life and experiences that are positive. And, you know, nobody wants to see their child suffering or struggling with something. And so I think.

when our son started to struggle with communication,

um,

that initial,

like

fear and

like

shock and,

oh my gosh,

what if this persist and what's going to happen?

And what's this future going to look like? You know? And it was just for me a journey of

like,

it doesn't matter. It really, you know, if it persists, we're going to be okay. And if it resolves, we're going to be okay and really just accepting him and. Um, having the sense of it doesn't change who he is. Right?

Like even if the stuttering had persisted, it wouldn't have changed who he was, his, his person, his worth, his, um, value, you know, in our lives and what he brings to our family. And so I think in that sense, that, um, was a shift, I think, for me as a parent, just being okay. with Even if it doesn't change, you know, even if it continues, then he's the same, he's the same person.

Um,

as a professional, I would say probably the biggest thing shift was just viewing stuttering more as a difference, as opposed to pathology, you know, really understanding, um, stuttering. as human variation and, and just something that's different in the way that people speak, but not necessarily something that is broken or a pathology that has to be fixed or something that has to be eliminated

or, um, even looking back.

It was funny. I happened to be looking at some old files that I have. I mean, I found some gold banks, um, from way back when, and I looked up my stuttering, um, goals, and I was like, I would be ashamed if anybody saw them today, you know, just realizing like, wow, you know how one little I understood. And then two, how much am I focused?

Um, was. Fixing and eliminating, and really just due to my own ignorance about what stuttering is and how we can approach it in a more holistic way and how we can really, um, view it, um, in a way to help people just become the best communicators that can be, even if that means that. I'm stuttering. So that's probably the biggest shift in terms of just my approach.

Um, and then of course, then that impacts how I'm teaching my students here at KGU and, um, it's huge. And, and really I've been able to incorporate the, um, transcending stuttering framework with my students as well. Just really helping them, um, conceptualize centering treatment. If we. Want to call it that, but just, you know, working with people who stutter, but really being able to think about what does the knowledge component mean?

What does adjustment mean? What does acceptance acceptance mean? What does advocacy mean? Um, and being able to give students maybe, uh, not a cookbook because there is no cookbook, but a framework to work within and to really think about stuttering differently.

Uri Schneider: Wow. Well, there's nothing more gratifying than seeing things going beyond the places you intended to kind of like your song.

Once you put it out into the world, you know, it's there for people to enjoy and to reflect and take from it, but they can. So for me, its deepest, deepest, deepest sense of gratitude to you for finding ways to bring that framework to other. And then it's been cool seeing you and other clinical instructors.

Jamming around that. Uh, very, very cool. So, which would you share with us? One of those, like, um, nausea, dating, old school goals as compared to one of the new school they're like, what are you informing your students? Like, I think there was a lot of conversation around us, right? As professionals in this space.

Um, I don't know. We can go for it together. And work it together, or if you want to just share. Cause I think, you know, you could talk at 10,000 feet or we can kind of like be right level on the ground. Um, what is a stuttering therapy goal of the past looked like, and what is stuttering therapy, a goal of the present look like?

And I loved how you kind of stuttered a little bit stammered a little bit hesitated a little bit when it came to, uh, how understanding stuttering therapy because yeah, I think it's like. Understanding, basically any condition, uh, in this case, our condition of interest might be the experience of stuttering, but it's not about treating per se.

It's like understanding. And, uh, from that point of understanding, we create opportunities and choices for the person who stutters for the parent for the professional, for the teacher, for the ally. So in my mind that framework, the transcending setting framework is really that it's a way to just Oregon.

And open up windows of understanding for all the stakeholders. Um, but I'd love if we maybe could share with the listeners, what would be an example of like an old school goal and maybe practically, what would a new school goal maybe look like we could bounce it off each other and then we'll go to the city.

Ana Paula Mumy: Yeah, so, um, Hmm. An old goal. I don't have them in front of me, so I just remember that it, the ones that I looked at recently, just, you know, always it was using X strategy or tool or whatever to, um, keep from stuttering. Right. So in some way to. The stutter to, um, avert, avoid, you know, whatever, whatever that may be.

Um, and I would say a new current goal would be that, um, really. The approach, right? So that, um, we're approaching communication differently. So it's, um, approaching, speaking situations that may be difficult and yes, can strategies be used to lessen physical tension to enable someone to feel. That they can stutter more easily or whatever it may be sure.

But really the, the, the focus is more the approach behavior of approaching difficult speaking situations, following through being willing to, um, speak up in class or being willing to. Make an introduction or give that presentation or, you know, so really, and I, and I'm thinking more in terms of like, school-based right.

So how do we help students be able to really show up and to not be afraid to stutter, but being able to, um, really reduce the fear of talking the fear of stuttering, um, so that they can communicate the things that they want to communicate. I mean, I know that's still kind of broad, but.

Uri Schneider: Two things come to mind.

I mean, first of all, you said it beautifully. Um, but shifting, shifting from a fluency focused goal bank and moving towards things within the frame of communication within the frame of the light, within the frame of connection. So, um, and the other big one that I'm borrowing from Michael Boyle also, and Seth petitioner, it's okay to talk about.

Yeah, not only is it okay to stutter, it's also okay to talk about stuttering. So the child, a goal could be that this young person is able to describe their stutter, that this young person is able to describe what are some things that make it easier for them to communicate. Other students, uh, educators in the classroom, et cetera, what are different situations, the different contexts that they find it easier or harder, and that's communicating to others how they can be an ally and we'll get to ally seal.

And then the dyad, I think leaning on the world of a phasia. We do spend a lot of time as we should leaning on the broader world of disability, the broader world of, of autism and understanding and advocacy and reducing. I think there's also something to learn from the world of, uh, phasia where we talk a lot about the shared responsibility of the speaker and the listener as a dyad.

And I think that, uh, that could be something we also bring into the self-advocacy side of goals and things like that. How do we enlist the listener enlist the teacher with that? I just wanted to touch that. Just show that we can take these lofty ideas and bring them down. I'll drop one other little exciting thing.

I can't. Which is as part of this platform, the transcending stuttering framework is this idea. It's a way of thinking the framework. We've also lined up every month of the year, right into the spring of 2022, a monthly guest speaker is going to give a masterclass workshop. So last week was Dr. Phyllis Schneider, my father, my teacher mentor, and the goat.

Um, greatest of all time we have Chris, we have.

Oh boy. Well, we have a couple of people lined up. We have this Sunday, Michael Sugarman talking about mindfulness and CBT and self care. That's going to be a series of deeper training for us LPs. Um, and you can get all this information at, uh, on Instagram at Schneider speech on the bio, or go to Luma L u.ma/transcending stuttering, but Nina Reeves.

It's coming up. I think in March, she's going to talk about how to set up IEP goals that are meaningful and holistic. And the month before that we'll have Scott, Yara is talking about holistic assessment. So taking lofty principles and things that are very timely topics that we need to talk about, bringing it to the frontline, helping those school-based SLP.

Work better, uh, do better, more, more wholesome work, but also fulfill and tick the boxes you need to tick and check if you're working in a different institution or system, which brings us to something we both care about. There are far too many parents of young children, young children, not so young children, young people, adults who are looking for support, who may be looking for a professional that can help them.

And as many speech-language pathologist as there are in America, I think about 150,000 registered for Dasha. Uh, there's only a few, a very small number of very, very small number that have a deep interest in, in taking the extra step to be ready to really serve this population. So tell us a little bit about what Spiro stuttering is doing to address that shortage address.

The demand of people looking for help, they can't find good help. And there are a lot of great people sprinkled around the country that a lot of great organizations already doing great things like the board, uh, stuttering foundation and others. Um, but what's the role that you see, you know, Spiro, stuttering filling in a unique way, which I think is remarkable.

Ana Paula Mumy: I would preface that by saying, um, it wasn't until my journey began, that I really understood the difference between being a generalist and a specialist, um, in, um, you know, the context of, um, just. You know, our, our huge large, uh, field of speech, language pathology. Um, our scope of practice is huge and we are expected to be able to treat so many areas.

And, um, so. I, I think I understood for the first time what that meant. And there is a wonderful path, um, to become a specialist in the area of fluency disorders. Um, but, um, it is of course rigorous as it should be. And, um, It is available to anyone. However, it's not always fully accessible in the terms of some of the requirements or just, um, there's a good number of clinical hours that have to be obtained.

And so, for example, if you're in a school setting, um, you may not have access to that many children who stutter. And so you may not be able to. Even if you have a, a specialized interest in stuttering, you may not have access to the children or the, um, clients to, to be able to obtain those clinical hours.

And so, anyway, long story short, you know, we felt like we needed, um, another path, um, not necessarily a better path, but just another path to make. Training and involvement in the centering community. Um, not only easier. So. And on-ramp in a sense to be able to get more training and then also recognition for that training, um, for the SLP.

So that a parent look for someone, if they don't have a specialist who is readily accessible to them, um, in the area that they live, that they could look for. Okay. If not a specialist then which generalist might know more than the average SLP, um, And who can I go to and trust that they are more well-versed or more confident, more, uh, knowledgeable about stuttering, um, so that the speech, um, experience, you know, whatever they pursue, that it would be, you know, positive for their family.

Um, so that's where we came up with the ally of stuttering seal. And so the, um, Speech-language pathologists. Anyone who's interested is able to apply for the seal. And it's just really, again, a recognition. It's not a certification. It's not something that's, um, endorsed necessarily by Attia. Um, but it is a way that the, um, speech language pathologists can demonstrate their commitment to more training.

Um, so there's an initial training requirements. Um, and then, um, in terms of just number of hours, um, there's also an involvement in the centering community requirement, which could mean, um, attending a conference. It could mean, uh, being a part of a support group or, you know, there's lots of ways that you can.

Demonstrate that involvement. Um, and then it's also a commitment to ongoing training at regular intervals. So you're essentially saying I'm committed. I'm going to prioritize stuttering as an area of professional growth. And, um, and so then we're able to connect families to those allies, um, to say, you know, this person is not a specialist, but they have made this commitment to more training and more involvement.

And so generally. Our hope is that that would mean better treatment outcomes or, or better communication outcomes, um, you know, for the child and for the family. So that's it in a nutshell.

Uri Schneider: Awesome. So people want to find out about that. Just drop that detail follow up. You can go to Spiro, stuttering. That's S P like Peter Spearow, S P E R O Spiro, stuttering.org. Is that right? Correct. Awesome. And you can see a lot more about Spiro stuttering now as a segue, in addition to all the different hats we've spoken about, uh, Anna, Paula, mommy, as the mommy we've talked, how'd you like that one we've talked and we've talked about the God calling.

I liked that, uh, it kinda like reminds me of Moses at the burning Bush. You had your own burning Bush moment there. And we've talked about the evolution of a, of a generalist with classic good professional. True. And how that shifts, when you start to have a personal connection, a personal lived experience, relationship, whether it's your own loved one, certainly with a child, it changes your outlook in very meaningful ways and in very lasting ways.

And you're paying that forward. We talked about the transcending stuttering framework and bringing that to the students and being. Let's go to your research interests. And, uh, I'll just drop. In addition to Michael Sugarman this Sunday, we also have Dr. Naimi Rogers lined up in November talking about the social side of stuttering, thinking about social cues and ambiguity and all sorts of things that relate to the experience.

Both how people see view, understand people who stutter, and then also have people who study. C view and look at the world and the impact and the understanding that stuttering has in that way. You are doing some very important work. And I would love to spotlight that and share that. And also just say, we want to use this platform that you're listening or watching right now, as well as the transcending stuttering platform to really support the good work of the people in university, doing the research to create.

Uh, light of understanding and places that are far too misunderstood. And by bringing together the academic researchers, academic instructors with the frontline clinicians, that's the word I learned from Anna Paula, the frontline clinicians, you know, working the streets, not exactly, but working in those schools in what's considered really the place where most young people are getting speech therapy funded through the department of education or through the government or those clinic.

To support them and give that bridge of access to the researchers to have access to the frontline people for the frontline people to have access to the researchers. And of course also to create a space, to learn and listen from people who stutter themselves, parents, teens, adults, children. Uh, so without further ado, what can you tell us and how can we help you in the exciting research that you're doing?

Ana Paula Mumy: In my research, I have been able to kind of merge my love of stuttering, but also with my love of bilingualism and just, um, I'm raising my kids bilingually. Um, they have been learning Portuguese since they were babies. And, um, my husband is an English speaker, so it's been a little bit more difficult journey for us to really, um, give them that fully bilingual experience.

But they're, they're doing great. And, you know, I wouldn't have done it any other way because, um, I feel like my children, um, when I see them interacting with my aunts and uncles in Brazil and cousins and my parents and when they were alive, um, it just, uh, made all the difference in the world. The fact that my kids were able to connect with my family in a deeper way, and, um, really felt at home in Brazil, which is what I wanted.

And so even though. I would say raising kids bilingually in the U S especially when Portuguese is your home language, it is difficult. It's not been an easy task, really a challenge. Um, I say it's an uphill climb because, um, There just, aren't very many opportunities, you know, to, um, facilitate that and to get my kids excited and motivated about Portuguese.

When, of course, you know, they go to an English speaking school and all of that, but anyway, so, but bilingualism is just, has been of course a part of my life and, and, um, the gap that I saw when I first started working. As an SLP was, um, how so many professionals were still recommending that? Parents stop speaking their home language with their children.

And so if there's any communication challenge, usually the culprit becomes, oh, it's the bilingualism, right? It's too much. It's too much effort. It's, you know, you're confusing them or this or that, which none of it's backed by research. Um, our brains have an amazing ability to learn language. Um, even when there are, um, Issues that compromise language growth or learning.

And so my first 15 years, I guess, of my career, it was really about trying to support monolingual, SLPs, and how to approach assessment, how to approach treatment and really keeping the language of the home central. So encouraging that families continue to do that. Um, and that they be, you know, sources of language input for their kids.

Um, And honestly, over time, then I began to realize like that in my own family, I owed just my mom and really her wisdom because there was pressure for us to switch to English when we first moved to the us. So I didn't come to the us until I was almost 11 and I didn't speak any English. Um, we started school right away and I had a little dictionary in my hand and that's what I use to get around and to figure things out and, um, There was pressure for us to speak more English at home so that we would, you know, speed up our own learning.

But then also speed up my parents learning. It took them years and years and years to finally feel comfortable in English. But my mom intuitively knew that we needed. Our humbling to remain Portuguese because we would have become like strangers in our own home, because there would have been this disconnect, you know, a language barrier in our family had we lost our ability to speak Portuguese.

Um, and so she was very adamant of, you know, about like, Nope, we're going to speak Portuguese. And, and, and honestly, it's kind of funny. If I think back, you know, the 30, some years that we lived here while my parents were still living, I can say I've never had a conversation with my parents in English ever.

Like I cannot think of a single instance where, um, that was natural or whether it felt normal. You know, it was awkward to do that. And so we, of course, you know, spoke English kind of amongst ourselves in terms of the siblings, because we were in school together and we hadn't used speaking friends and all that, but with my parents, it was always Portuguese.

And if that had not been the case, like I just see how, like our family dynamics would have changed. You know, there's so many detrimental consequences to removing the home language. And so that's what, um, My work really focused on is trying to educate SLPs professionals, families. In terms of the value of maintaining the home language.

And so then with stuttering, that question comes to right, your child begins to center their bilingual I'm by wool. When, when my son began to sit her, I'm like, okay, is there something to this? Like, you know, am I causing additional stress or am I adding this linguistic, um, component that I shouldn't be adding?

You know? So then you start kind of questioning yourself. And so. I wanted to really understand, like, what does the literature say? And, um, so my most recent retreat, uh, research project was on, um, really trying to look at the literature that speaks to bilingualism and. Are there, you know, does it create a greater, um, likelihood that they would set her because, um, they are bilingual or essentially the question being, you know, this bilingualism cost stuttering, that's kind of the bottom line.

Right. And so. Um, so I did a literature review and I wrote a perspectives tutorial that hopefully will get accepted. I don't know yet. I submitted it awhile back. I'm still waiting to know if it will be, um, accepted for publication. But, um, I hope so, because I feel like I was able to provide some practical tips and, um, just principles to abide by to really think about like, how does.

Um, bilingual kids and then kind of with this, um, stuttering lens or bilingual children who stutter, you know, um, taking that into consideration a little bit further. So anyway, that's, that's my most recent, um, research and I actually.

Uri Schneider: Oh, good. You're about to drop something.

Ana Paula Mumy: Go ahead. Well, I was just gonna say I did a three minute presentation of my research for this competition called the three minute thesis and it's

Uri Schneider: perfect.

W we could do the 32nd or the three minute we got time. We want to hear that's what I wanted to do. To get like the, a few kernels of wisdom that you feel you could share with us as a result of your exploration.

Ana Paula Mumy: Yeah. So go listen to my three minute speech, but if I get to the next round and also vote for me, there's a people's choice award.

That's tied to this competent competition. So, but really the, I would say. But the biggest takeaway is there is no research that justifies asking a bilingual child to become monolingual. Whether that be a child who stutters, whether it be a child with autism or a child with down syndrome or a child with specific language impairment, you know, all the research in those different areas demonstrate that we may see similar deficits across their languages, but it's not necessarily going to make them more.

Susceptible to maybe, you know, worst outcomes or, um, That, you know, it would in some way be damaging to them. So there's really no research to support, um, removing the home language, um, and really what the research shows. So I looked at other research, um, in areas of like psychology and, um, early childhood education and so on.

And really that research points to like what the benefits of bilingualism are and the benefits to the family and the benefits to emotional health and the benefits to, you know, cognitive processes and all of that. So, um, so that's what my, um, most recent research, just the nuggets, I guess, from, from that,

Uri Schneider: we're going to, we're going to pop the three minute presentation into the comments here, and we've got some others, but if you want to up.

And Nepal on that link, do that. If you want to just drop a whole bunch of likes and loves right now, if you have any questions you want us to squeeze in we're ahead of schedule, which never happens. It's because we're such a fluid operation right here. We're like the tin can man who got oiled up, you know?

Um, that's awesome. Paul, I think what I'm hearing from you, and it just brings me back to thinking about some universal principles. We hold dear, you know, cost benefit analysis. And like you can look at bilingualism and assume, oh, that's probably part of the problem with any of these things. And the research is resoundingly showing us that there's no basis for that.

And even if there was, or let's say there isn't the unseen or unaccounted for peace is you take a family that has a value of Portuguese or has a value of Chinese. So any other time in New York, we've got Yiddish speaking communities. We've got Chinese speaking communities. Uh, we've got Spanish speaking communities.

And my wife and I got married, lived in Queens. I think of all the United States, Queens has the most languages spoken for any county across the 50 states, maybe in the world. And, uh, what's the cost, right? So there might be a thought of benefit of like eliminating the bilingualism, but what's the. Right.

And I think that has to be looked at. So anytime we're asking a family or considering for ourselves, I have problem X. Maybe I should just cut this out. I have financial problems. Let me eliminate the gym membership. We'll hold up a second. What's going to happen. If you cancel the gym membership, you know, stop working out, you stop being fit.

Like if you're not using the membership, that's one thing. But if you're using it, what's the cost of not exercising. Sure. It's going to put a few more bucks in your pocket, but it might. It's something else and your bloodstream, you know, so cost benefit. And I think that's something that I've really come to think about broadly through the work of Chris Constantino.

You know, thinking about what's the cost of using a speech strategy. What's the cost of not getting professional support. You know, there's a lot of reason as we've talked about not every therapist knows what they're doing, but what's the cost of not getting the support that you feel like you need should be cautious.

There's also a cost and attacks of kind of doing it on your own. If you're not finding that you're doing swimmingly well. Um, so that's just like quick reflection. Yeah. That is also my favorite assessment tool. And I think many of us appreciate the value that was brought into the world through the OAC.

Yeah, maybe you could tell us a little bit more about it and, uh, you doing something incredibly exciting, but there's a part of the world that doesn't speak English and, uh, Scott and stuttering therapy, resources, big, shout it out. You can put the link there in the comments. Um, they've done an incredible job and I had a small part to play in one of these translations.

They've done a lot to bring it to a lot of languages. You're playing a part to do what and which parts of the world will benefit.

Ana Paula Mumy: Uh, huh? Yeah. So the Oasis was translated into Portuguese. Um, a few years back. I think it's been. Oh, gosh, maybe eight years or so. Um, but there has not been a validation study study done, um, on the, um, Portuguese version of the Oasis.

And so another component that I wanted to bring into my clinical doctorate was, um, understanding the experience of stuttering, um, in Brazil. And, um, like I mentioned before, um, My connection with the , which is led by, um, Daniella that's coach and also Luciana . Um, they, um, have just opened, uh, My, uh, I guess, access to adults who that are in Brazil and just the experience of centering in Brazil.

And I'm really understanding more of that there. And I just wanted to do something that would be in that would involve Brazil because Brazil is my love. And I, um, it's so interesting because even though I've lived here for 34 years, I think now, um, I think it's 34. I, I still feel more Brazilian than I do American and I still feel, um, more connected and somehow like Brazil still feels like home to me, um, in a way that I can't explain almost because I've been so far removed for so many years, but there's something about just, and I think that probably largely had to do with my parents.

Um, but just the, um, The connection that I, that I feel in that I just have there. So anyway, I wanted to do something and so I was like, Hey Scott, what could I do here? And so he recommended that I do this validation study. So, uh, that'll be my next product project. And, um, I might get to do it in Brazil.

We'll see if not, it'll be via zoom, but, um, there's this grant that came up that I've applied for. So fingers crossed that I'm gonna, um, get funded to be able to do this in Brazil, but, but if not, it'll still work out. But anyway, so it'll be just an opportunity to investigate that tool a little bit further and, um, validate it's.

Um, So we're looking at, you know, validity, reliability, um, in the context of, um, using it with resilient adults who stutter. So that's it in a nutshell. Um, so yeah, I'm excited. I, I love the Oasis tool as well. I use it. Um, I think as I've grown, um, as. Clinician. I realized how the impact of centering is so much more relevant than the actual studying itself.

And you know, just how the impact of stuttering, um, changes how people live, how they think, how they approach life in general and participation in life. And so I just believe it's such a, a good tool and I just would like to contribute in some way, you know, in Brazil, Um, and I will just kind of put a plug here for, um, when I stutter, um, in Portuguese.

So I did get to, um, through my friendship with Daniella, uh, we were able to translate to when I stutter, um, and do the, you know, sub subtitles for it. And, uh, we screened it in Brazil. Um, back in 2019. You were able to really bring it to the Brazilian public and it was very well received and that was an exciting project.

Um, and it's now on the, um, it's being offered as in-flight entertainment on the tap air, Portugal, airline. It's been viewed already thousands of times, and it's just exciting that, you know, just the things that we've been able to do, uh, my collaboration with them, um, and how we've been able to. Bring it a little bit more to the public in terms of just understanding the experience, the stuttering.

So,

Uri Schneider: okay. Here's a little, here's a little, the secret, first of all, I'm inspired and I'll tell you why, but I, um, I have some time on airplanes, uh, pre COVID and, uh, looking forward to coming to Asher. I know some people are going to be there looking forward to see you, let me know, connect. Um, On the plates that people ask me all the time.

Oh, you do work with people who stutter or have you seen the king speech? And I'm like at least 20 times because Delta had it on the in-flight movie system. And I tell people, I saw it at least 20 times and I cried at a different spot each time I've watched it. So I need to talk to tap airlines because clearly they're onto something.

Delta needs to get more of the stuttering documentaries in English for me. On the Delta system. Um, but that's, that is pretty epic. It's one thing to translate, nothing to get that kind of distribution. So big shout out to John. I gave him shout out in the comments. If you have more people to mention the comments, please drop comments and links.

Um, so Anna, Paula, I'll just say why I'm inspired. Um, I think of you as a role model and inspiration because on the one hand. You had, you had one little person who stutters and you cared deeply and you leaned in and all of us can take a lesson from that. I certainly, um, you know, like each person, whether it's the janitor I bumped into that I told the story about, or that one person that isn't even on your caseload, if you're a therapist or isn't in your classroom, if you're a teacher, but you know, there's something they're going through.

And you know that you have a little extra dose of empathy, a little extras of understanding of being a champion for. At the same time and appall is involved in this research that spans the country 50 states. And then beyond that, she's teaching her students beyond that. She's bringing Portuguese translation to the greatest tools that are out there collaborating with great colleagues and researchers and.

And then translating the subtitles for movies, the opportunity we have today to collaborate, to transcend boundaries, to transcend the definitions of what roles we play, whether we have a PhD or this recognition or that recognition, we all have something to contribute. So I'm inspired to think about how I can make contributions by the expanse of everything you're doing.

And our city of spirit. And from the first conversation we had the collaborative spirit. That's the spirit we need to cultivate, especially in a world that's so more divided than, than we want it to be. And that it needs to be, um, any parting words, uh, either what we talked about right before we started hitting record, or just any parting wisdom of, of wishes for the future dreams for the future.

Ana Paula Mumy: Um, One to again, encourage SLPs to, um, access the funds that we have. You know, there are a Sparrow stipends. Um, we have had fairly small numbers of applicants that have, um, you know, just submitted something. And so I just really want to encourage SLPs to, um, If you don't need that additional training or the stipend, but that you share it with others, that you let other people know, Hey, there's funding for, you know, as a school-based SLP.

Um, we do prioritize school-based SLPs just because, like you said, we feel like they are the frontline clinicians. Um, but that's not to say that. A person in private practice or in another, um, like a clinical instructor or in some other role and it wouldn't be eligible. They are. And so I just would want to say, um, help us get the word out.

You know, there's a lot of people I think that could benefit from, um, extra funding to be able to get training in an area that we just don't get much. Um, the other thing that I didn't mention too, is we are funding some research. Um, so we have a scholarship that was actually established in honor of my dad who passed away last December.

And so it's very special to us. Um, and Ooh, I'm going to get emotional now. Um, Oh, my goodness. I was not expecting that. So, um, I lost both of my parents in about a year and a half span, so it's been a rough, um, uh, a couple of years in our family and we've had lots of adjustments, but anyway, so we just wanted to honor, um, my dad's legacy and, um, his vision.

Um, oh my goodness. I'm going to just lose it here, uh, to bring us all to the us and to really help us, um, Be able to make an impact and, um, So anyway, we have this scholarship for grad students and doctoral students who are doing innovative research in the area of stuttering. And, um, it is specifically geared for minority students.

Uh, Because we just feel like that would be something that would be close to his heart, um, based on our immigrant experience and just bilingual experience in so many ways that's available. So I'm just would love to spread the word. Um, but that's there because a lot of people don't know. Um, and I guess, I don't know if that's all.

I just, I feel so grateful and just fortunate to be here. And I appreciate you taking the time, um, you know, to, to give me the space and I, I really, um, I feel so fortunate and grateful. So going back to gratitude that, um, you know, I've been able to walk in the calling that I feel and just the sense of joy and just gratitude that comes from that.

And just feeling that, you know, I'm doing exactly what God has gifted me to do and that I can do it with, with pleasure and joy and. No giving it my all. And, um, and then two, I think I'm honoring my parents in that because I'm here because of their sacrifice and because of their vision and their wisdom and how they raised me and loved me, you know, through all of it.

So I just would say, I would want to honor them, um, to just, you know, in, in my, um, just. All of it, you know, just how I got here. And I felt that, so in such a real way, when I was in Brazil and I was speaking to the Brazilian centering association conference, um, participants, and we had just screened when I stutter and I was up there and I just had this kind of surreal sense of like, wow.

Okay. All of my life has prepared me for this in a sense, you know, just being there, being able to share this in Portuguese with, um, Brazilian people and, you know, just being in my home country. And, and again, just thinking back to just my parents' sacrifice and everything they did, you know, for us to have these opportunities and to, um, be able to do the things that we love.

And so, anyway, I just want to honor that. The day. So I guess that would be my parting words.

Uri Schneider: A thousand percent. Listen, we got this far without anybody tearing up. So it was, it was all at the right time. Uh, your passion, your passion speaks for itself, and we're all better for it that you shared so openly and vulnerably.

And honestly, I think when you get to the point of tears, you know, someone really cares about something super deeply. It's not just lip service and each of the areas of your activity. That's B volumes and not only trilingual, but you wear many different hats in your roles and in your perspective that not everybody has as many perspectives, certainly doesn't speak as many languages.

So I want to thank you for that and for being a partner in different things. And just to piggyback, if I may, you know what Anna Paul is saying is in addition to helping speech therapists get the seal, um, there's also this funding opportunity and the concept of. Not to hand out and entice people that aren't interested, but people that get this emotional and care, this deeply funding, shouldn't be the obstacle to you getting access to go further.

So if there are opportunities, there are many different learning opportunities. Transcending stuttering is offering a whole host and there are others outside. I just want to share this screen real quick and then just entice those who have that passion and wonder about where would I start or where would I get the funding?

Well, anthropologist says. This is our link tree slash IRA speech on the Instagram. Here's the gratitude challenge. Here's the mindfulness CBT self care with Michael Sugarman. Two meetings this November starting on Sunday. Here's a one-off with Dr. Amy Rogers, the social side of stuttering. Here's the courage muscle with Dan Greenwald.

All three of these presenters are people that have passion and expertise in the area of the subject matter. There'll be talking. And they're all people that know stuttering from the inside. And I just want to showcase that, uh, that we can all learn from each other. We all have something to bring professionals, researchers, people on every side of this experience have something to contribute.

It's like standing on different sides of an elephant. You don't know what you're touching, but it could talk with one another. You can kind of put it together and see the whole thing and put the elephant on the table. Name it. Uh, hopefully it's a strong table, but I think together we've got a strong table.

Strong clap. If you have feedback about the podcast as we're planning this next season, we've got some incredible guests lined up, uh, but I'd love to hear your feedback. So feel free to drop it in the comments or send us an email, uh, send an email to help at transcending stuttering that CEO, or go to the website, transcending centering.co and send us a message and Apollo.

Thank you. Thanks for listening. Share this. If you think it's worth hearing and I wish everybody a great, great day, wherever you are.